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Post by jason on Jan 8, 2018 4:19:16 GMT -5
I'm older than a lot, probably most, people who post here, so I have a better understanding of how people felt about certain things, such as animal abuse, back in the 50's and 60's. From what little I know about this triad, Macdonald didn't come up with it until 1963 and that was before people became so obsessed with animals, specifically dogs, that they felt that dogs should be treated the same as humans. People didn't approve of mistreating animals and there were laws against animal abuse, but no one paid any attention if someone kicked a bothersome dog or whipped a dog for trying to bite or while they were trying to train them. Today, if someone kicks a dog or whips a vicious dog, some people act like they'd nailed a newborn to a post, or something equally terrible. But torture is something entirely different. People who torture any kind of animal or a human are sick, but I don't think that they're any more likely to become serial killers than anyone else. Someone else, either in this thread or in the old group, said that dog obsessed people are more likely to torture and kill human beings than they are dogs because they place a higher value on dogs.
It's normal to hit, kick or kill a biting dog or a dog that's chasing other animals, or whatever. What isn't normal are sickos who get pleasure from causing pain to an animal or human. I despise everything about dogs, but I wouldn't torture one, or anything else for that matter. People who commit torture are mentally unbalanced -- they aren't wired correctly or they have a screw loose -- and so are serial killers. But while some serial killers torture their victims, I've never found any relationship between the two. For instance, Ted Bundy was a serial killer, but didn't torture his victims and from all accounts, he was an animal lover. Then you have serial killers like Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, who were primarily interested in torturing, overpowering and enslaving their victims. But aside from the fact that both Bundy and Lake and Ng killed women, they have next to nothing in common.
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Post by steve on Jan 8, 2018 9:13:32 GMT -5
It's normal to hit, kick or kill a biting dog or a dog that's chasing other animals, or whatever. What isn't normal are sickos who get pleasure from causing pain to an animal or human. I despise everything about dogs, but I wouldn't torture one, or anything else for that matter. People who commit torture are mentally unbalanced -- they aren't wired correctly or they have a screw loose -- and so are serial killers. But while some serial killers torture their victims, I've never found any relationship between the two. For instance, Ted Bundy was a serial killer, but didn't torture his victims and from all accounts, he was an animal lover. Then you have serial killers like Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, who were primarily interested in torturing, overpowering and enslaving their victims. But aside from the fact that both Bundy and Lake and Ng killed women, they have next to nothing in common. You and Jane are saying the same thing. I saw on some TV show that serial killers are prone to violent outbursts and fits of rage and can't control their tempers. But I guess that's true of a lot of people.
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Post by kitty on Jan 8, 2018 10:43:48 GMT -5
You and Jane are saying the same thing. I saw on some TV show that serial killers are prone to violent outbursts and fits of rage and can't control their tempers. But I guess that's true of a lot of people. If you can figure out what anyone is saying in this thread anymore, you're doing better than I am.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 18:12:04 GMT -5
There is some confusion about what is an Indicator and what is a Factor. You could send out a hundred boys to shoot dogs but that doesn't mean any of them would become homicidal. It's not a Factor. But I think Animal Abuse could be an Indicator of a Factor.
Here's a Justice Department article on the subject with studies and statistics. It seems to say the rates in the general male child and male youth population is about 10%.
www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/188677.pdf
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Post by julia on Jan 8, 2018 18:32:28 GMT -5
Those who torture animals or humans are sadists and the infliction of pain brings them pleasure and is usually sexually stimulating. I can see where a child who tortures animals would be predisposed to torture humans should the opportunity arise. Therefore, if a boy who tortured animals became a serial killer, he would almost certainly torture his human victims. In a recent study, sadism was included as part of what the researchers called the “Dark Tetrad”: sadism plus the traits that make up the “Dark Triad”: psychopathy, narcissism and Machiavellianism.
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Post by kitty on Jan 9, 2018 2:54:58 GMT -5
There is some confusion about what is an Indicator and what is a Factor. You could send out a hundred boys to shoot dogs but that doesn't mean any of them would become homicidal. It's not a Factor. But I think Animal Abuse could be an Indicator of a Factor.
Here's a Justice Department article on the subject with studies and statistics. It seems to say the rates in the general male child and male youth population is about 10%.
www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/188677.pdf I read the link and the high numbers were taken from boys that had been referred for mental health services compared to those who hadn't been referred. Is there any evidence that boys who are referred for mental health services become serial killers more than those who are normal?
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Post by kitty on Jan 9, 2018 2:57:00 GMT -5
Those who torture animals or humans are sadists and the infliction of pain brings them pleasure and is usually sexually stimulating. I can see where a child who tortures animals would be predisposed to torture humans should the opportunity arise. Therefore, if a boy who tortured animals became a serial killer, he would almost certainly torture his human victims. In a recent study, sadism was included as part of what the researchers called the “Dark Tetrad”: sadism plus the traits that make up the “Dark Triad”: psychopathy, narcissism and Machiavellianism.
So now, in addition to the Homicidal Triad, there's the Dark Tetrard and the Dark Triad. This is too much for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 19:17:24 GMT -5
It's not about who "becomes a serial killer". It's only about who is more apt to be "homicidal", or what are possible or probably indicators of someone who could be potentially homicidal.
And just because a person doesn't commit murder doesn't mean he's not homicidal. There are more than enough reasons not to act on murderous impulses in our society.
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Post by steve on Jan 10, 2018 2:12:58 GMT -5
I did include Dennis Rader because he was in the Air Force. He was an airplane mechanic.
George Bush became a pilot in the National Guard during Vietnam. He didn't have to go into Aviation but his father was an aviator. He didn't have to go into the Texas Air National Guard.
But I probably should eliminate Tony Mancini, the Brighton Trunk murderer, because he was drafted into the Royal Air Force and was quickly discharged. I'll put an asterisk.
Did you think of George Bush because of the stories that he and Ted Bundy are brothers? whatliesbeyond.boards.net/thread/4221/ladies-favorite-president
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Post by pat on Jan 10, 2018 11:46:18 GMT -5
Those who torture animals or humans are sadists and the infliction of pain brings them pleasure and is usually sexually stimulating. I can see where a child who tortures animals would be predisposed to torture humans should the opportunity arise. Therefore, if a boy who tortured animals became a serial killer, he would almost certainly torture his human victims. In a recent study, sadism was included as part of what the researchers called the “Dark Tetrad”: sadism plus the traits that make up the “Dark Triad”: psychopathy, narcissism and Machiavellianism.
There was a show about Rod Ferrell on the Justice Channel last night. He was the crazy kid who pretended to be a vampire and killed a girl's parents here in Florida back in the 90's. When he started hitting the victims, he couldn't stop and kept hitting them until he beat them to a pulp. The narrator said that some killers get a sexual thrill while they're hitting or stabbing their victims and that's the reason some victims are beaten to a pulp and stabbed dozens of times.
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Post by Joanna on Jan 10, 2018 14:29:38 GMT -5
Correct, Joanna. It's not necessarily licensed pilots and it's certainly not commercial pilots or Air Force pilots. Originally, Russell Williams, Robert Hansen and Robert Yates were the only ones I knew about. That's why I say Aviation and not AviatORS. Then you should definitely add Todd Kohlhepp to your list. If he hadn't been interested in aviation, he wouldn't have claimed to have a pilot's license.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 18:27:17 GMT -5
Todd Kohlhepp is now on the list. He's another example of an Aviator who killed after 2010 when the idea of Aviation being an Indicator was first floated out there. Dellen Millard is another example and he started killing in 2012. Youngest solo pilot in Canada. Father owned an airline.
Pat, I didn't think of the George W Bush example because of that story of being twins with Ted Bundy although I do remember that. Pretty funny! It was the claim that Dennis Rader was avoiding Vietnam so he's not a legitimate Air Force aviation guy.
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Post by jason on Jan 11, 2018 17:19:49 GMT -5
Pat, I didn't think of the George W Bush example because of that story of being twins with Ted Bundy although I do remember that. Pretty funny! It was the claim that Dennis Rader was avoiding Vietnam so he's not a legitimate Air Force aviation guy.
Bush and Bundy weren't twins. They had different mothers, but George H.W. Bush fathered both of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 20:47:07 GMT -5
Bush and Bundy weren't twins. They had different mothers, but George H.W. Bush fathered both of them. Then, were they both raised by their grandmother who said she was their mother and their real mother was their sister? I know that happened to Jack Nicholson and look what happened to him. Is he even acting? Maybe they should have all gone into acting. That's not in any Homicidal Triad.
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Post by madeline on Jan 12, 2018 0:17:22 GMT -5
Then, were they both raised by their grandmother who said she was their mother and their real mother was their sister? I know that happened to Jack Nicholson and look what happened to him. Is he even acting? Maybe they should have all gone into acting. That's not in any Homicidal Triad. Jack Nicholson?
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