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Post by kitty on Aug 30, 2017 18:43:11 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think that the accusers and their gullible supporters are all taking some kind of psychotropic medication that suppresses their ability to reason. They still deny the truth, even after it's shown to them, and this isn't normal. Studies have shown that psychotrophic drugs may contribute to cortical grey matter loss. I'm sure that the women who claim that they were sexually abused were prescribed all sorts of drugs through the years because they're all claiming that they were psychologically damaged.
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beta
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Post by beta on Aug 31, 2017 14:28:00 GMT -5
Jason, I would not be surprised if some of them have experienced cognitive issues from medications, but I actually think most of what's happening on that page is group think and willful ignorance. I think some people have a need for an "Other" to rail against and be outraged at. This is a social event; they are bonding with each other over their shared hatred of Maskell, who in their minds is basically evil incarnate. They'd have him (with the help of other nuns, priests, Ed Davidson, Billy Schmidt, and the Baltimore PD, of course) killing Kennedy if the timeline and the location didn't make it impossible.
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Post by steve on Aug 31, 2017 16:51:24 GMT -5
Jason, I would not be surprised if some of them have experienced cognitive issues from medications, but I actually think most of what's happening on that page is group think and willful ignorance. I think some people have a need for an "Other" to rail against and be outraged at. This is a social event; they are bonding with each other over their shared hatred of Maskell, who in their minds is basically evil incarnate. They'd have him (with the help of other nuns, priests, Ed Davidson, Billy Schmidt, and the Baltimore PD, of course) killing Kennedy if the timeline and the location didn't make it impossible. Is this something like mass hysteria? There have been a few posts about mass hysteria, though I can't find them right now, and though I don't know much about it, it sounds a lot like the same thing.
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Post by beta on Sept 4, 2017 18:44:32 GMT -5
On a smaller scale, but yes, it's very much like mass hysteria. It might even be building up to that, especially among many of the participants on the main Facebook page. Hopefully it will remain limited to the FB page and internet forums/comment sections, but it's deeply disturbing to see so many therapists praising The Keepers, and some saying they deal with "recovered memories" in a lot of patients. Way too many mental health professionals appear to be believing and practicing the same quackery from the 80s.
Maybe all of this will settle down as time passes and the show fades into the background among other, newer Netflix shows. I'm hoping for that. But a lot of damage has been done nonetheless, and this show might still have set mental health care back by decades.
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Post by kitty on Sept 4, 2017 19:01:18 GMT -5
On a smaller scale, but yes, it's very much like mass hysteria. It might even be building up to that, especially among many of the participants on the main Facebook page. Hopefully it will remain limited to the FB page and internet forums/comment sections, but it's deeply disturbing to see so many therapists praising The Keepers, and some saying they deal with "recovered memories" in a lot of patients. Way too many mental health professionals appear to be believing and practicing the same quackery from the 80s.
Maybe all of this will settle down as time passes and the show fades into the background among other, newer Netflix shows. I'm hoping for that. But a lot of damage has been done nonetheless, and this show might still have set mental health care back by decades. What I don't understand is why recovered memories seem to be making a come-back after all those people were wrongly convicted in the 80's and 90's. How can mental health professionals believe the recovered memories of Jean Wehner and the other women are credible, but not the recovered memories of those that sent so many people to prison during the Satanic Panics? How do they justify having it both ways?
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Post by beta on Sept 5, 2017 15:27:32 GMT -5
What I don't understand is why recovered memories seem to be making a come-back after all those people were wrongly convicted in the 80's and 90's. How can mental health professionals believe the recovered memories of Jean Wehner and the other women are credible, but not the recovered memories of those that sent so many people to prison during the Satanic Panics? How do they justify having it both ways? This is an excellent question, and the following information might help to answer it, at least in part. This was shared with me (and I'm passing it along with permission) a few years ago by someone who had both worked in mental health care as a social worker, and later as a consumer, being treated for severe depression. Notably, this conversation took place years before The Keepers but it was still not that long ago... well after these beliefs in repressed memories and multiple personalities should have been long since abandoned. The sad truth is that these practices never completely went away, they just went underground for awhile after victims of false memories starting suing the shrinks and therapists for malpractice. The techniques are referred to by different terms, there are new therapeutic models with new, fancy names, but underneath it's still the same suggestive techniques and quackery.
She said that in her experience, both as a professional and then as a patient, the clinicians who embraced and pursued these treatments and therapeutic models had the following dynamics in common:
1) They were rather mediocre clinicians, many of whom were educated as "generalists" with a master's in social work, not specifically trained as mental health therapists
2) All were intellectually and emotionally seduced by a mentor. (In the Keepers fandom, I've seen names thrown around like Colin Ross, Bessel Van der Kolk and others who had, in fact, become famous during the Satanic Panic as self-declared "experts" in these fields. In other words, The Keepers fans are venerating the absolute worst quackery and the lowest of the low in terms of the clinicians who perpetuated and profited from that whole period of hysteria. Ross and Van der Kolk were among the Rock Stars of that era and many mental health care workers held them in high regard)
Part of the seduction appealed to a fabricated and false notion that treating Multiple Personality Disorder (now known as Dissociative Identity Disorder) somehow conferred upon them a superior status, implying superior intelligence and clinical skills. (Recovered Memories and MPD/DID went hand-in-hand, and as the appellate brief shows, Jean Wehner was no exception.)
3) All of them had a stated or unstated disdain for working with people who have a genuine neuro-biological disorder (mental illness). Part of this disdain was a faulty paradigm in which they perceived case management, teaching basic life skills and recovery tools and working as a "team" to empower the person struggling with a mental illness as mundane, boring and "unglamorous".
4) This point was specifically applicable in her situation, but also seems to be true of these clinicians in general. Most of the Recovered Memory retractors I've communicated with have said that this was true in their cases as well:
They disregarded any warnings given to them by colleagues or their clinical supervisors that this work was causing regression in their patients, increased self-destructive behaviors, including suicide attempts and increased need for repeated inpatient hospitalizations.
In this specific situation they ignored directives from clinical supervisors to stop conducting Recovered Memory Therapy or stop using techniques known to encourage or bring about memory "recovery".
5) Also specific to her case but seems to be true of many of today's therapists: They all refused to read the range of professional literature which often provided critical theoretical and clinical implications of Recovered Memory Therapy. In her case, they were breaking hippa rules and meeting with each other to "co-supervise" and provide "emotional support", even going so far as to reveal to each other their patients' identities.
6) Perhaps most relevant AND most damning: all of them felt they were "courageous" for continuing to practice RMT, even as many of their peers spoke of the dangerous consequences. So, this was their 15 minutes of glory, despite the wide range of devastation they created.
Although her experience took place in the mid or late 1990s, this last point is still very relevant today. I've seen so many people say about Jean Wehner (and others like her) "But why would anyone make that up??!? She must be telling the truth!!"
Besides the fact that "recovering" a false memory is not the same as simply lying or malingering, we've created this whole culture in which victims/survivors are surrounded by fans and supporters (and dare I say it, groupies), and they, as well as their therapists, are worshiped and venerated as heroes. There is plenty of incentive for some people to lie about this, and worse, plenty of incentive for therapists to consciously or unconsciously encourage someone to "retrieve" memories of a trauma that might have never occurred.
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Post by Graveyardbride on Feb 27, 2018 9:49:49 GMT -5
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Post by jane on Nov 29, 2018 20:38:21 GMT -5
I haven't kept up with this story like some of you, but I think that I saw somewhere that there's going to be a continuation of the series on Netflix and it's going to be called "The Series." Is this true, or did I misread something?
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Post by kitty on Nov 29, 2018 21:38:17 GMT -5
I haven't kept up with this story like some of you, but I think that I saw somewhere that there's going to be a continuation of the series on Netflix and it's going to be called "The Series." Is this true, or did I misread something? I think that I saw something about a new series called "The Sinner," but I might be mistaken. I hope there's not a part II of "The Keepers." If there is, I'm not watching because I've had all I can take of those bitches.
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Post by catherine on Nov 30, 2018 1:27:42 GMT -5
I think that I saw something about a new series called "The Sinner," but I might be mistaken. I hope there's not a part II of "The Keepers." If there is, I'm not watching because I've had all I can take of those bitches. I saw something about "The Marking of a Murderer Part II," but it wouldn't surprise me if Netflix made a sequel featuring the Sacred Cows. It's still hard to believe that so many people were taken in by their crap.
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Post by Kate on Dec 1, 2018 18:24:28 GMT -5
I saw something about "The Marking of a Murderer Part II," but it wouldn't surprise me if Netflix made a sequel featuring the Sacred Cows. It's still hard to believe that so many people were taken in by their crap. God, I hope not! Someone needs to sit those women down one at a time, point out the problems with their stories and insist that they clarify what they're saying. But considering what Netflix did the last time, that will never happen.
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lga
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Post by lga on Jun 9, 2019 11:10:45 GMT -5
So sorry there is no more discussion on this "Creepers" The Keepers. I worked on the case as an amateur investigator and can tell you there was a lot of lying and underhanded things going on. I was so disgusted. Now Yellowtail and her buddy the non private eye, Shane have a podcast going.
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Post by catherine on Jun 9, 2019 13:38:59 GMT -5
So sorry there is no more discussion on this "Creepers" The Keepers. I worked on the case as an amateur investigator and can tell you there was a lot of lying and underhanded things going on. I was so disgusted. Now Yellowtail and her buddy the non private eye, Shane have a podcast going. "The Creepers." Good name for those sacred cows: Jean Wehner, that toad Donna VonDenBosch, and the others. As an investigator, what is your opinion of how they "recovered" their memories? Do you have any idea why everyone was so quick to believe everything they said, even though they contradicted each other? This case is one of my pet peeves and I'm interested in anything you have to say.
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lga
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Post by lga on Jun 9, 2019 14:31:13 GMT -5
I will tell you what I know. Can I even post on here messages that were sent to me. I am not busy tomorrow and would love to let you know everything I know. Not sure if you have heard Out of the Shadows podcasts. Unbelievable. I and 2 of my other friends who worked on this with yellowtail had it out with her. She is a damn liar. I have the proof too.
Will reply tomorrow. I have friends coming over in a few hours for dinner and I have nothing done. LOL
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Post by JoannaL on Jun 9, 2019 16:19:50 GMT -5
I will tell you what I know. Can I even post on here messages that were sent to me. I am not busy tomorrow and would love to let you know everything I know. Not sure if you have heard Out of the Shadows podcasts. Unbelievable. I and 2 of my other friends who worked on this with yellowtail had it out with her. She is a damn liar. I have the proof too. Will reply tomorrow. I have friends coming over in a few hours for dinner and I have nothing done. LOL You're welcome to post any messages you sent or received, including those from other sites.
The only thing I find more shocking than The Keepers, which is the most biased "documentary" (and I use the term loosely) I've ever seen, is the way so many people accepted everything those women said without question. Ours is one of the few sites where people are free to criticize the documentary, the women's "recovered memories," how they contradicted themselves and so on, without fear of attack. -- Joanna (Group Owner)
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