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Post by natalie on May 18, 2017 16:43:16 GMT -5
Netflix's New True Crime Series 'The Keepers' Searches For Answers in 47-Year-Old Cold Case Jillian Capewell The Huffington Post, May 18, 2017There were a lot of things for true crime junkies to get excited about when Netflix released the teaser for its new series “The Keepers”: an unsolved murder, a missing nun, corruption, a possible Catholic school cover-up.
For all its promises, the series — from documentary veteran Ryan White, who also directed “The Case Against 8” and “Good Ol’ Freda” — delivers. The seven episodes center around the 1969 disappearance and death of Sister Cathy Cesnik, a young nun who taught English at a Baltimore-area Catholic high school and was beloved by students. Two months after Cesnik failed to return home from a routine shopping trip, her body was found by hunters in a remote wooded area five miles from her apartment. Investigations revealed she had suffered a mortal wound to her head. Her killer was never found.
“The Keepers” is as addictive and compelling as “Making a Murderer,” the documentary series that ran on the streaming network in late 2015, spurring theories, sprawling message board discussions and an acute hunger for more true crime stories. (The docu-series are entirely different, of course, but comparisons will be inevitable.)
Any good documentary needs narration, especially for one as layered, and with as many individuals involved, as this. While some of the key players in the story that unfolds surrounding Cesnik’s death have also since died, many are still around to keep the story alive — namely, a group of students at Archbishop Keough High School where the nun taught. It’s been more than 40 years, but the women are able to recount their memories of their former teacher as though they had just graduated.
Perhaps their sharpness is a result of running through those formative years over and over in their heads, trying to search their memories for anything that could explain Cesnik’s abrupt disappearance. Years after graduating, her former students have created a circle of amateur detectives, knocking on doors, looking up records and sharing information. They want to find out something, anything, about who killed their teacher.
Leading the crew are Gemma Hoskins and Abbie Schaub (above), a retired teacher and nurse, respectively. In the series, we meet Hoskins sitting down at a restaurant and inquiring about their chardonnay. When she discovers that they serve Yellow Tail, she answers with a laugh, “Oh, that’s fine, that’s what I drink at home. Only.”
Meanwhile, we are introduced to Schaub as she waits in line at a local library, stack of papers in hand. “We’ve been using your excellent services for about two years,” she tells the librarian in a high, warm voice when it’s her turn. “We’ve been looking into an unsolved murder case.”
It’s not the kind of thing you’d immediately expect to hear from Schaub, who comes off as a studious, cheerful grandmotherly type. She and Hoskins make an unlikely team, but one that easily becomes central to the series. In the first episode, Hoskins recalls her excitement upon walking into Cesnik’s class at 13 to learn they’d be reading The Scarlet Letter, describing her wonder that “a cool nun” would be teaching the somewhat scandalous classic. Cesnik, we learn, was supportive and eager to listen to her students, a rare source of comfort in a strict religious and academic environment.
“Gemma’s been the Nancy Drew, I think,” Schaub tells the camera while she and Hoskins are sitting side-by-side at a kitchen table, discussing their efforts to find more information about those fateful months in 1969. “She’s good at getting people to talk to her.”
“Abby does amazing research, like no one I’ve ever met,” Hoskins adds. Hoskins likes to pick up the phone and talk to people, which Schaub says is perfect — she does not. It’s hard not to fall in love with the idea of two old high school acquaintances teaming up to solve a long-cold case, proving that the yearning to solve a grisly crime is not confined to whatever notions of detectives we typically see on screen. Other former classmates, journalists and retired law enforcement join the two women in their search for answers.
Hoskins and Schaub’s passion for justice is inspiring, a torch through the darkness that will emerge most pointedly in the series’ second episode. It’d be inaccurate to paint the series solely as a thrilling caper — real traumas occurred within the halls of Archbishop Keough, the effects of which carry through to the present day. The pair of women leading the amateur search for answers provides a framework for the rest of the shocking narrative to reveal itself, a positive and endearing aspect of a tale with much abuse of power and darkness, where the possibility for true justice feels as long buried as its subject.
“The Keepers” begins streaming on Netflix Friday, May 19.
See also “February 3, 1970: ‘If I Should Ever Leave You’”: whatliesbeyond.boards.net/thread/917/6th-update-january-1970-leave
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Post by kitty on May 18, 2017 18:45:38 GMT -5
I've been waiting for this series, but now I'm having some major misgivings about this case. I've been reading the articles and comments in the Today in History section, 'January 3, 1970: If I should ever leave you" and I'm beginning to think that the priest may not have been guilty. I just went back and re-read the original article in the thread and those women who accused him had what they called recovered or repressed memories that they suddenly remembered. Isn't repressed memories unreliable?
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Post by Sam on May 19, 2017 4:26:28 GMT -5
I've been waiting for this series, but now I'm having some major misgivings about this case. I've been reading the articles and comments in the Today in History section, 'January 3, 1970: If I should ever leave you" and I'm beginning to think that the priest may not have been guilty. I just went back and re-read the original article in the thread and those women who accused him had what they called recovered or repressed memories that they suddenly remembered. Isn't repressed memories unreliable?
I agree with you, I also have a lot of questions. I also thought that recovered memories have been discredited, but there are still a lot of men in prison who are there because someone had a repressed memory about child sexual abuse. I think that more courts are rejecting repressed memory testimony. In this case, the article says "The abuse lawsuit brought in Baltimore County Circuit Court by the two former Keough students ("Jane Doe" and "Jane Roe") was eventually dismissed when the appellate court found that alleged repressed and recovered memories do not toll the statute of limitations." But those women still got a lot of money from the church. whatliesbeyond.boards.net/thread/917/4th-update-january-1970-leave
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Post by pat on May 19, 2017 8:32:19 GMT -5
I've been waiting for this series, but now I'm having some major misgivings about this case. I've been reading the articles and comments in the Today in History section, 'January 3, 1970: If I should ever leave you" and I'm beginning to think that the priest may not have been guilty. I just went back and re-read the original article in the thread and those women who accused him had what they called recovered or repressed memories that they suddenly remembered. Isn't repressed memories unreliable?
I'll bet this turns out to be another "Making a Murderer," which was about as far off base as you can get. Now people are saying that maybe Father Neil Magnus killed Sister Cathy. I'm beginning to think that the police and everyone else are barking up the wrong tree and that the church didn't have anything to do with her murder, or the murder of Joyce Malecki, and that the whole sex abuse thing is a complete fabrication.
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Post by madeline on May 20, 2017 1:13:49 GMT -5
I'm not impressed with this series. I don't believe anything based on recovered repressed memories. Memory can be faulty and it's too easy for therapists to suggest things that never happened.
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Post by jason on May 20, 2017 10:50:38 GMT -5
This Netflix series, like "Making a Murderer," is a load of garbage. Most of it's about alleged "sexual abuse," for which there isn't an iota of proof, with very little about the nun's murder.
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Post by beta on Jun 14, 2017 14:03:55 GMT -5
Hi everyone, This documentary series had a big impact on me, but not in the way that it apparently affected most people. I created an account here because this seems to be the only place where people can express doubts or any kind of skepticism about the claims in The Keepers without being flamed and called an "abuse enabler" or being accused of abuse. (How disappointing that it's come to that!) In any case, for those of you have asked, yes, recovered memories are not only highly controversial, they are viewed as inherently unreliable by many credible researchers as well as practitioners. The Keepers implied (falsely, and I'm sure they knew that) that recovered memories are accepted as valid within the scientific community. They are not. There is a subset within mental health care -- it is, in fact, the very same group that once promoted, and often still promotes the notion of Satanic Ritual Abuse -- who also still believe in and endorse this idea of recovered memories. But they are not mainstream, or not yet, thankfully, and I can only hope that this deceptive "documentary" doesn't sway the more credulous practitioners into believing all of this again. Both Jean Wehner and Teresa Lancaster, Jane Doe and Jane Roe in the 1995 lawsuit, sued based on memories they had recovered over two decades later. Jean Wehner had been in Recovered Memory Therapy for over a decade when she started "recovering" her memories of abuse at Keough. (Prior to that she had "recovered" memories of abuse by her uncle and other assorted people.) There seems to be confusion about this, because a lot of forums and comment sections have people ranting that Doe/Roe were different because they didn't recover their memories in therapy. They also argue that Wehner and Lancaster were the only ones who recovered their memories, that the others always remembered. Neither of those things are true. In addition to her therapy, she also practiced Recovered Memory Therapy techniques like "inner child" communication, and various types of journaling designed to probe memories, at home. Court statements show that she had been reading repressed memory books like "The Courage to Heal", a self-help book which became notorious for facilitating the creation of false memories and confabulation among many women. (Good information can be found in the Wiki entry: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Courage_to_Heal)The other "survivors" don't get as much screen time, but they commonly refer to large gaps in their memory; one woman talked about how for a long time, she "didn't know what happened", and that she "didn't want to know what happened." It becomes apparent, from statements like that, that they too recovered their memories. The family of Jean Wehner (who was still only known as Jane Doe at the time) circulated a letter to Keough alumna asking if any of them had been abused, and later her legal team placed an ad in the paper asking people to come forward if they'd seen or experienced sexual abuse at Keough. Given that this was right at the height of the "repressed memory" era, it's no surprise other people "discovered" memories of abuse. And they no doubt each believed that their own memories were "corroborated" by the presence of Jane Doe and Doe's own "memories". Ugh, I could go on, but I've already posted a way-too-long first post here. I'll end with a heartfelt "thank you" for allowing skeptical and critical opinions of The Keepers to be shared here.
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Post by pat on Jun 14, 2017 15:30:41 GMT -5
I agree and welcome to our group. I was banned on one reddit site because I was skeptical of the claims of the women and if that wasn't bad enough, then I started receiving abusive private messages accusing me of working for the Baltimore archdiocese and other ridiculous accusations.
Have you read the comments in the article "January 3, 1970: 'If I should ever leave you" on this site? It's a great article that was written about the case back in 2014, long before "The Keepers," and there's a discussion posted from a site where three of the women, Lancaster, Hoskins and Vondenbosch, ganged up on someone who dared question them about some of their accusations. In case you haven't read it, here's the link: whatliesbeyond.boards.net/thread/917/5th-update-january-1970-leave
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Post by beta on Jun 14, 2017 20:42:45 GMT -5
Thank you Pat!
I read through the other thread, and I actually looked up the insidebaltimore.org article and posted a reply there. I'm tempted to look through some of the other articles (compiled at insidebaltimore.org) and leave comments in those as well. I doubt any of the "survivors" will engage in conversation, but I do think it's important to have an opposing view presented.
If you have the inclination, consider taking screen shots of the private messages people sent you on Reddit; save examples of the insanity. I'd love to see that (with any identifying info blurred or blacked-out, of course)
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Post by jason on Jun 14, 2017 21:09:53 GMT -5
Thank you Pat! I read through the other thread, and I actually looked up the insidebaltimore.org article and posted a reply there. I'm tempted to look through some of the other articles (compiled at insidebaltimore.org) and leave comments in those as well. I doubt any of the "survivors" will engage in conversation, but I do think it's important to have an opposing view presented. If you have the inclination, consider taking screen shots of the private messages people sent you on Reddit; save examples of the insanity. I'd love to see that (with any identifying info blurred or blacked-out, of course) I've given up trying to say anything on other sites because almost every one of my Disqus comments concerning the "abused women" have been deleted and I've been banned from a couple sites simply for questioning their claims. The same thing has happened to other Disqus users on various sites. One person asked a question about Jean Wehner's claim that a nun was present when some of the "abuse" took place and when I went back to see if anyone had replied, the post had been deleted. I wish Joanna (the owner of this group), or Lee (graveyardbride) would attach a poll to either this thread or the article Lee wrote about the case in "Today in History" to see if there are other doubters who have been attacked for expressing their opinions.
BTW, welcome to our group and don't worry about your posts being too long. I'm very interested in what you have to say on this issue. Have you noticed on Inside Baltimore that Gemma Hoskins replied to your comment, saying "Who are these people? Very strange"? I'm surprised Tom Nugent hasn't deleted your and Lee's posts.
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Post by beta on Jun 15, 2017 15:14:08 GMT -5
Have you noticed on Inside Baltimore that Gemma Hoskins replied to your comment, saying "Who are these people? Very strange"? I'm surprised Tom Nugent hasn't deleted your and Lee's posts.
Didn't see that! Thanks for pointing it out. I'm pleasantly surprised, too, that the comments are still up. Not sure who she means by "these people" or what she finds strange, but I don't know if it's worth trying to find out. Any doubt or disagreement is met with paranoia, it seems.
It's discouraging to hear that simply questioning them or their stories got your comments deleted, and baffling that this is happening on so many forums and comment sections all over the web. It's no surprise to see this on the The Keepers official Facebook page, but other websites? Insane. I do think that part of it is this idea that the "survivors" are delicate flowers who need to be protected from all these horrible questions. This idea is very much promulgated by the survivors themselves, as seen in right there in that insidebaltimore.org comment section. One of them asked Lee77 if he was from the church, because "this is how they treat people they've wronged" or something like that. Anyone who considers Lee77's completely valid questions to be on the same level as abuse is someone who has likely never experienced real abuse.
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Post by kitty on Jun 15, 2017 16:33:17 GMT -5
I think that she was referring to you and Lee and she found it strange that you both dared to question them about their accusations.
Welcome to the group. I liked what you said and if you have anything else to say about this topic - or any other topic - please do.
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Post by pat on Jun 16, 2017 13:12:54 GMT -5
Thank you Pat! I read through the other thread, and I actually looked up the insidebaltimore.org article and posted a reply there. I'm tempted to look through some of the other articles (compiled at insidebaltimore.org) and leave comments in those as well. I doubt any of the "survivors" will engage in conversation, but I do think it's important to have an opposing view presented. If you have the inclination, consider taking screen shots of the private messages people sent you on Reddit; save examples of the insanity. I'd love to see that (with any identifying info blurred or blacked-out, of course) Please let us know if you post in any of the other insidebaltimore articles. I'd love to see what you say and the replies. I don't understand why those women object to anyone else posting. They act like the site is exclusively for them. If that's the case, why is there a comments section?
After I was attacked by others and called stupid, retarded, crazy, uneducated and ignorant, was banned from "The Keepers" subreddit, and started receiving all the abusive PMs, I deactivated my account. I didn't break any subreddit rules or personally attack anyone else or use abusive language, I was banned simply because I said that I found those women's stories very hard to believe and that a lot of what they said didn't seem logical. In the PM's, I was called a bitch, a whore, a c--t and every other nasty word that can be used to describe a woman. I was accused of being a pedophile, a Catholic priest who sexually abused children pretending to be a woman, either the murderer or someone who was covering up for the murderer, someone who was jealous of the women because I had been sexually abused and didn't come forward, a woman who was having a sexual relationship with a Catholic priest, someone involved in sex trafficking, and a prostitute who serviced Catholic priests. Everyone has been attacked at sometime by someone on the internet, but I can honestly say that I have never been attacked so viciously before this.
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Post by steve on Jun 18, 2017 17:13:02 GMT -5
Please let us know if you post in any of the other insidebaltimore articles. I'd love to see what you say and the replies. I don't understand why those women object to anyone else posting. They act like the site is exclusively for them. If that's the case, why is there a comments section?
After I was attacked by others and called stupid, retarded, crazy, uneducated and ignorant, was banned from "The Keepers" subreddit, and started receiving all the abusive PMs, I deactivated my account. I didn't break any subreddit rules or personally attack anyone else or use abusive language, I was banned simply because I said that I found those women's stories very hard to believe and that a lot of what they said didn't seem logical. In the PM's, I was called a bitch, a whore, a c--t and every other nasty word that can be used to describe a woman. I was accused of being a pedophile, a Catholic priest who sexually abused children pretending to be a woman, either the murderer or someone who was covering up for the murderer, someone who was jealous of the women because I had been sexually abused and didn't come forward, a woman who was having a sexual relationship with a Catholic priest, someone involved in sex trafficking, and a prostitute who serviced Catholic priests. Everyone has been attacked at sometime by someone on the internet, but I can honestly say that I have never been attacked so viciously before this.
I just found out from my mother that something like that happened to her for saying that she didn't believe those women. I don't know what site it was on.
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Post by beta on Jun 21, 2017 21:58:09 GMT -5
Please let us know if you post in any of the other insidebaltimore articles. I'd love to see what you say and the replies. I don't understand why those women object to anyone else posting. They act like the site is exclusively for them. If that's the case, why is there a comments section?
After I was attacked by others and called stupid, retarded, crazy, uneducated and ignorant, was banned from "The Keepers" subreddit, and started receiving all the abusive PMs, I deactivated my account. I didn't break any subreddit rules or personally attack anyone else or use abusive language, I was banned simply because I said that I found those women's stories very hard to believe and that a lot of what they said didn't seem logical. In the PM's, I was called a bitch, a whore, a c--t and every other nasty word that can be used to describe a woman. I was accused of being a pedophile, a Catholic priest who sexually abused children pretending to be a woman, either the murderer or someone who was covering up for the murderer, someone who was jealous of the women because I had been sexually abused and didn't come forward, a woman who was having a sexual relationship with a Catholic priest, someone involved in sex trafficking, and a prostitute who serviced Catholic priests. Everyone has been attacked at sometime by someone on the internet, but I can honestly say that I have never been attacked so viciously before this.
I just found out from my mother that something like that happened to her for saying that she didn't believe those women. I don't know what site it was on.
Pat, your experience (and that of Steve's mother) is an interesting counterpoint to the "survivors" saying they felt so very attacked by the church and the defense lawyers. It seems the reality is quite different; if you read enough of these discussions you can see exactly what they themselves define as an attack (i.e. not fully believing them) and they have zero qualms responding with very real attacks in the form of baseless, defamatory allegations against strangers. They feel completely justified in doing this and are apparently completely blind to their hypocrisy. Seems to be but one of many toxic effects of the "hero" status they indulge in when they identify as a "survivor". I'm really sorry to hear you and Steve's mother were treated like that.
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