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Post by pat on Jul 27, 2015 10:45:54 GMT -5
I seems to me he preyed on women who make very bad decisions. I think you're right. Even those women he attacked in the middle of the night could have prevented the attack if they had used a little common sense and locked their bedroom doors. When he attacked the women at the Chi Omega house in Tallahassee, the police found evidence that he had tried to open other doors that were locked and kept trying doors until he would come to one that wasn't locked. I read something where he said that most women attacked in their bedrooms could have prevented the attacks simply by locking their bedroom doors because a man who had the intention of raping or killing a woman wouldn't risk kicking in a locked door because it would make too much noise.
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Post by aprillynn93 on Jul 27, 2015 10:56:24 GMT -5
Exactly. The women at the beach that refused to go with him, he did not pursue them. Even the woman who got as far as his car before coming to her senses, when she said she couldn't go, he didn't try to grab her, or convince her or anything. He simply let her go.
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Post by kitty on Aug 18, 2015 20:31:09 GMT -5
There've been so many books, TV shows and news articles about Bundy, but nobody has ever explained why he chose to be a serial killer. He was good looking, educated and had everything going for him, so why did he spend so much time stalking and killing women?
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Post by catherine on Aug 19, 2015 12:25:04 GMT -5
There've been so many books, TV shows and news articles about Bundy, but nobody has ever explained why he chose to be a serial killer. He was good looking, educated and had everything going for him, so why did he spend so much time stalking and killing women? That's a question I don't think anyone will ever be able to answer.
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Post by nosygrandma on Oct 21, 2015 16:42:07 GMT -5
If you have read the very good and very informative The Only Living Witness, he talks about being a young boy and not understanding about why he was attracted at an early age to violence and sex. Because he didn't have a conscience he went with those feelings instead of seeking help for them. He grew up in the 50's when sex itself wasn't discussed let alone deviant sex. He must have thought he was totally alone. It is this young Ted I feel bad for. His grandfather was a sadistic man who enjoyed tormenting his family and the pets. His grandmother was manic depressive and a virtual prisoner suffering from agoraphobia. All this Ted watched and no one talked about any of it. When his victims heads were found they showed massive skull fractures that could only have happened by a huge force coming down on them, there has to be tremendous anger there. He grew up feeling inadequate with good reason, and didn't feel that women would find him attractive and this too caused anger. As weird as it may sound he was actually scared of his victims. That's why he cold calked them and hand cuffed them before he put them in his car. That's why he usually raped them after they were dead, he enjoyed being the one who took their lives, he enjoyed watching their silent eyes while the act was committed. In my opinion Bundy was doomed from his illegitimate birth (Yet another reason for his anger) and he didn't have much of a chance and as a consequence neither did his victims. Of course the adult Ted Bundy could have chose to get help but his lack of a conscience and his need to keep his secrets prevented it. He is ever a fascinating subject for me and being a student of psychology I have to wonder what if....
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Post by Graveyardbride on Oct 21, 2015 17:48:11 GMT -5
If you have read the very good and very informative The Only Living Witness, he talks about being a young boy and not understanding about why he was attracted at an early age to violence and sex. Because he didn't have a conscience he went with those feelings instead of seeking help for them. He grew up in the 50's when sex itself wasn't discussed let alone deviant sex. He must have thought he was totally alone. It is this young Ted I feel bad for. His grandfather was a sadistic man who enjoyed tormenting his family and the pets. His grandmother was manic depressive and a virtual prisoner suffering from agoraphobia. All this Ted watched and no one talked about any of it. When his victims heads were found they showed massive skull fractures that could only have happened by a huge force coming down on them, there has to be tremendous anger there. He grew up feeling inadequate with good reason, and didn't feel that women would find him attractive and this too caused anger. As weird as it may sound he was actually scared of his victims. That's why he cold calked them and hand cuffed them before he put them in his car. That's why he usually raped them after they were dead, he enjoyed being the one who took their lives, he enjoyed watching their silent eyes while the act was committed. In my opinion Bundy was doomed from his illegitimate birth (Yet another reason for his anger) and he didn't have much of a chance and as a consequence neither did his victims. Of course the adult Ted Bundy could have chose to get help but his lack of a conscience and his need to keep his secrets prevented it. He is ever a fascinating subject for me and being a student of psychology I have to wonder what if.... As you can see from the sources I listed, I have read The Only Living Witness, however, I found some of the conclusions therein a bit contrived. Ted himself was unable to explain why he turned into a killer, so all anyone else can do is guess and guesses are wrong as often as they're right. The world is full of illegitimate children from abusive homes – and the Cowell home wasn’t what I would call particularly abusive – and they don’t turn into serial killers. I, personally, do not believe he would have ever started killing had he not changed his major from ancient studies to psychology, but that’s just my opinion. I also disagree with the various authors who have claimed he lacked a conscience. While it’s true he had little concern for the families of his victims, this proves only that he was thoughtless in that regard, not that he was wholly without a conscience.
I also disagree with the various authors who have branded him a necrophiliac. While he was certainly attracted to death, and the dead, in some respects, that makes him more of a necrophile than a necrophiliac. I’m sure at some point he tried necrophilia and found it lacking – I won’t go into the reasons at this time – and instead knocked his victims unconscious and kept them in an insentiate state until he killed them. Some of the women were discovered with freshly-shampooed hair, nail polish in colors they didn’t normally wear, etc., an indication they had been kept alive for a period of time. The heads, of course, prove he was a degenerate, but no one ever said he was normal.
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Post by nosygrandma on Oct 22, 2015 15:38:21 GMT -5
Ted was a pathological liar like all serial killers. I didn't believe much of what he had to say including his "3rd person" accounts. You could be right about the necrophilia part but I think that is incidental. I will always believe he was intimidated and feared his victims and got them incapacitated early because of that. As far as the abusive part well that is debatable. The whole subject of who makes serial killers and who doesn't depends, on my opinion, the combination of abusive home and lack of conscience. That's why some come from horrible situations and never kill or hurt anyone and those who do. Lack of conscience. The combination can be deadly.
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Post by madeline on Oct 22, 2015 16:40:07 GMT -5
The whole subject of who makes serial killers and who doesn't depends, on my opinion, the combination of abusive home and lack of conscience. That's why some come from horrible situations and never kill or hurt anyone and those who do. Lack of conscience. The combination can be deadly. But Lee said that he didn't lack a conscience.
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Post by kitty on Oct 22, 2015 21:17:41 GMT -5
I, personally, do not believe he would have ever started killing had he not changed his major from ancient studies to psychology, but that's just my opinion. I also disagree with the various authors who have claimed he lacked a conscience. Why do you think that changing his major to psychology made him kill?
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Post by Graveyardbride on Oct 23, 2015 10:22:19 GMT -5
Why do you think that changing his major to psychology made him kill? Ted had his horoscope done once and was told he had what is called an afflicted horoscope, with Venus in Scorpio, which is equivalent to having been born under a “dark star.” Basically, men with Venus in Scorpio are weird and to compound the situation, Scorpio was the dominant sign in his chart. He admitted to having what he called some “quirks” and attributed them to his afflicted horoscope until Liz Kloepfer convinced him to change his major to psychology and he began analyzing himself. I have no respect for psychiatry and psychology and feel the so-called “study of the mind” – which is an art, not a science – has done the world more harm than good. I’m not saying astrology has any validity, but sometimes, attributing one’s inclinations to a dark star is safer than analyzing them.
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Post by pat on Oct 24, 2015 1:28:00 GMT -5
Ted had his horoscope done once and was told he had what is called an afflicted horoscope, with Venus in Scorpio, which is equivalent to having been born under a “dark star.” Basically, men with Venus in Scorpio are weird and to compound the situation, Scorpio was the dominant sign in his chart. He admitted to having what he called some “quirks” and attributed them to his afflicted horoscope until Liz Kloepfer convinced him to change his major to psychology and he began analyzing himself. I have no respect for psychiatry and psychology and feel the so-called “study of the mind” – which is an art, not a science – has done the world more harm than good. I’m not saying astrology has any validity, but sometimes, attributing one’s inclinations to a dark star is safer than analyzing them. I don't know if changing his major made him become a killer, but I don't trust people in what is called the mental health field. I do think that there was something seriously wrong with Liz Kloepfer because even after she saw the strange look in his eyes and the drawing in the paper looked like Ted and she was wondering if he went to the lake the Sunday the women went missing, she still stayed with him. I don't think that she was very stable and two unstable people together aren't good for each other.
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Post by jason on Oct 24, 2015 17:06:39 GMT -5
Ted was a pathological liar like all serial killers. I didn't believe much of what he had to say including his "3rd person" accounts. You could be right about the necrophilia part but I think that is incidental. I will always believe he was intimidated and feared his victims and got them incapacitated early because of that. As far as the abusive part well that is debatable. The whole subject of who makes serial killers and who doesn't depends, on my opinion, the combination of abusive home and lack of conscience. That's why some come from horrible situations and never kill or hurt anyone and those who do. Lack of conscience. The combination can be deadly. So what makes you think that he didn't have a conscience? He knew right from wrong. A lot of people are thoughtless and inconsiderate at times, but that doesn't mean they lack a conscience.
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Post by jason on Oct 24, 2015 17:15:46 GMT -5
Ted had his horoscope done once and was told he had what is called an afflicted horoscope, with Venus in Scorpio, which is equivalent to having been born under a “dark star.” Basically, men with Venus in Scorpio are weird and to compound the situation, Scorpio was the dominant sign in his chart. He admitted to having what he called some “quirks” and attributed them to his afflicted horoscope until Liz Kloepfer convinced him to change his major to psychology and he began analyzing himself. I have no respect for psychiatry and psychology and feel the so-called “study of the mind” – which is an art, not a science – has done the world more harm than good. I’m not saying astrology has any validity, but sometimes, attributing one’s inclinations to a dark star is safer than analyzing them. LOL! So now you're blaming Liz for turning him into a serial killer. This reminds me of the time we were discussing the war in Iraq. All you ladies opposed the US invasion because you had a thing for Saddam (God knows why!) and blamed everyone but George Dubya Bush, the man who ordered the freaking invasion! All of you were ready to hang Condoleezza Rice for not paying attention to warnings the US was about to be attacked, Cheney for his influence on Bush and everyone else for providing false information about WMD, but excused Dubya as simply "misguided."
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Post by nosygrandma on Oct 26, 2015 12:07:29 GMT -5
Well there is a difference between knowing right from wrong and DOING what you know is wrong. Many people mistake thinking no conscience means not knowing the difference. Ted was far from crazy he knew exactly what he was doing was wrong. He enjoyed it
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Post by jason on Oct 26, 2015 14:33:20 GMT -5
Well there is a difference between knowing right from wrong and DOING what you know is wrong. Many people mistake thinking no conscience means not knowing the difference. Ted was far from crazy he knew exactly what he was doing was wrong. He enjoyed it Some people of limited intelligence may think "no conscience means not knowing the difference between right and wrong," but I don't. What I'd like to know is why you and Lee are so at odds in your opinions of Bundy? Why do you believe his illegitimacy and living in a less-than-perfect environment to the age of 4 (which isn't very long) turned him into a conscienceless, pathologically lying serial killer?
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