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Post by kosherdill on Sept 22, 2021 20:20:44 GMT -5
Hello everyone! This is a topic I'm interested in trying to make some sense of, so I'd appreciate your thoughts and theories. On the Wikipedia page for the comic character John Constantine, there is a section entitled 'real life' which documents real life sightings of John Constantine. Several writers from Hellblazer have claimed to have seen John Constantine; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Constantine#In_real_lifeThere have also been sightings of Slenderman, Disney characters, The Shadow (Novel character) and Hanna Barbera characters. They weren't people in costumes.. Some of these sightings weren't even humanoid in nature. They were (to the witnesses) the actual characters themselves. This page documents a sighting of Slenderman by a woman who didn't even know he was a fictional character.. anomalyinfo.com/Stories/2012-november-ca-disquieting-encountermysteriousuniverse.org/2019/02/bizarre-cases-of-fictional-characters-who-stepped-off-the-page-into-reality/What was unusual about these sightings is they (the characters/entities) could interact with the physical world, and everyone else could see them, so it wasn't just one person who could see them at the same time. In one case that happened decades ago, which I can vaguely recall right now, some people were even killed, leaving one witness, who was disturbed for the rest of his life because of what he had seen. At first, it was a creepy looking silhouette out of some fog, then, when they became scared of it and correctly guessed what it was, that's when it started to fully appear and give chase, and it started to eat each of his friends, one by one, with only him surviving the encounter. When he gave a detailed description of what he saw and some drawings, it matched that of a character from a then-recently released cartoon show, except instead of being friendly, it was aggressive. It was as if they were flesh and blood entities, capable of talking, eating, opening doors, etc. From what I can recall right now, there was a search for bodies, but they could never be found, so it would seem as if something had eaten them, hence why no bodies could be recovered. These entities don't seem to stick around for too long; with the John Constantine sightings, one of the writers decided to follow him around a corner, only to find that he'd disappeared! Sometimes, these characters behave in a manner consistent with their source material. In other cases, they act out of character compared to their source material (ie, a friendly character being violent, or threatening). I'm not sure if this is related to ghosts, but I was thinking about it earlier and just wondered what people's thoughts are on this phenomenon.
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Post by jason on Sept 22, 2021 23:37:34 GMT -5
First, you can't believe anything you read on Wikipedia. Second, people who claim they've seen fictional characters or creepypasta characters are either delusional or under the influence of drugs or alcohol. A good example is reddit, where most of those who post are potheads and/or on anti-psychotic drugs for some sort of mental disorder. They're always posting puerile videos that turn out to be nothing, or claiming they've seen a skinwalker or the wendigo, both of which are supernatural entities from American Indian folklore. People who aren't in their right mind can convince themselves of just about anything.
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Post by kosherdill on Sept 24, 2021 1:04:15 GMT -5
First, you can't believe anything you read on Wikipedia. Second, people who claim they've seen fictional characters or creepypasta characters are either delusional or under the influence of drugs or alcohol. A good example is reddit, where most of those who post are potheads and/or on anti-psychotic drugs for some sort of mental disorder. They're always posting puerile videos that turn out to be nothing, or claiming they've seen a skinwalker or the wendigo, both of which are supernatural entities from American Indian folklore. People who aren't in their right mind can convince themselves of just about anything. I find it harder to believe it being drugs and alcohol when multiple people saw the character at once, and they weren't taking any drugs or anything like that at the time. Hallucinations can be vivid, but as I said there was a case where 4 people were killed, 1 person survived and had witnessed everything, the bodies could never be found (the witness said he saw the character eat his friends) despite bodies always being found in that area, and there are newspapers printed the day after it happened to back all of this up that this was an actual event. The witness stuck to his story for the rest of his life.
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Post by Graveyardbride on Sept 24, 2021 2:43:28 GMT -5
I find it harder to believe it being drugs and alcohol when multiple people saw the character at once, and they weren't taking any drugs or anything like that at the time. Hallucinations can be vivid, but as I said there was a case where 4 people were killed, 1 person survived and had witnessed everything, the bodies could never be found (the witness said he saw the character eat his friends) despite bodies always being found in that area, and there are newspapers printed the day after it happened to back all of this up that this was an actual event. The witness stuck to his story for the rest of his life. If you’re referring to Brian McCleary, he never said a cartoon character ate his friends. He said they were attacked by a sea serpent and one of the bodies, that of Brad Rice, did wash ashore. I have been hearing about this tragedy for years and have friends from the Fort Walton Beach area who knew the five boys involved. I also spoke with Brian McCleary when I was doing the article, “‘Johnnie’ and other Monsters of Florida’s St. Johns River,” which was published in a local magazine before I posted it here. If you wish to discuss the Pensacola incident, why on earth would you even mention alleged sightings of cartoon and creepypasta characters, which are in no way related to what happened in 1962?
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Post by kosherdill on Sept 24, 2021 5:10:44 GMT -5
I find it harder to believe it being drugs and alcohol when multiple people saw the character at once, and they weren't taking any drugs or anything like that at the time. Hallucinations can be vivid, but as I said there was a case where 4 people were killed, 1 person survived and had witnessed everything, the bodies could never be found (the witness said he saw the character eat his friends) despite bodies always being found in that area, and there are newspapers printed the day after it happened to back all of this up that this was an actual event. The witness stuck to his story for the rest of his life. If you’re referring to Brian McCleary, he never said a cartoon character ate his friends. He said they were attacked by a sea serpent and one of the bodies, that of Brad Rice, did wash ashore. I have been hearing about this tragedy for years and have friends from the Fort Walton Beach area who knew the five boys involved. I also spoke with Brian McCleary when I was doing the article, “‘Johnnie’ and other Monsters of Florida’s St. Johns River,” which was published in a local magazine before I posted it here. If you wish to discuss the Pensacola incident, why on earth would you even mention alleged sightings of cartoon and creepypasta characters, which are in no way related to what happened in 1962? Hi The source I read about this case on (I forget which forum it was) made comparisons between the character 'Cecil' from 'Beany and Cecil' and the sketch that McCleary drew. Some of the similarities noticed were; McCleary said it was green in color. Cecil is green. McCleary said the neck 'bent in the middle'. The character is shown doing that many times in the show. Cecil has three long eye lashes near his eyes. McCleary's sketch does appear to include three eye lashes next to the eyes. This is one of the trademarks of the character. The dorsal fin at the back of the head, and the shape of the head, were very similar. McCleary said it was 10 feet tall. In the opening lyrics to Beany and Cecil, Cecil is literally described as being 10 feet tall. This incident happened just 2 months after Beany and Cecil started airing. It began airing in January, 1962. This incident happened in 30 foot deep water. Lastly, McCleary said that it was a ''monster'' in his Fate Magazine submission, not a sea snake. The definition of ''monster'' is ''a large, ugly, and frightening imaginary creature.''. I'm not sure if McCleary himself was familiar with the show, but a lot of people agreed that the similarities are striking. There was also a book which briefly touched on this case, which made the suggestion that the entity that killed McCleary's friends was a tulpa or 'thought form' which took a solid physical form. This case reminds me quite a lot like the Monique Jones one. She never explicitly said that she saw Slenderman, but a humanoid figure with a featureless face. It was only after she was introduced to the Slenderman myth that she made the connection, by her daughter who was familiar with the character. I've attached an image I found which included the sketch and pictures of Cecil side by side. Attachments:
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Post by jason on Sept 24, 2021 13:27:32 GMT -5
Hi The source I read about this case on (I forget which forum it was) made comparisons between the character 'Cecil' from 'Beany and Cecil' and the sketch that McCleary drew. Some of the similarities noticed were; McCleary said it was green in color. Cecil is green. McCleary said the neck 'bent in the middle'. The character is shown doing that many times in the show. Cecil has three long eye lashes near his eyes. McCleary's sketch does appear to include three eye lashes next to the eyes. This is one of the trademarks of the character. The dorsal fin at the back of the head, and the shape of the head, were very similar. McCleary said it was 10 feet tall. In the opening lyrics to Beany and Cecil, Cecil is literally described as being 10 feet tall. This incident happened just 2 months after Beany and Cecil started airing. It began airing in January, 1962. This incident happened in 30 foot deep water. Lastly, McCleary said that it was a ''monster'' in his Fate Magazine submission, not a sea snake. The definition of ''monster'' is ''a large, ugly, and frightening imaginary creature.''. I'm not sure if McCleary himself was familiar with the show, but a lot of people agreed that the similarities are striking. There was also a book which briefly touched on this case, which made the suggestion that the entity that killed McCleary's friends was a tulpa or 'thought form' which took a solid physical form. This case reminds me quite a lot like the Monique Jones one. She never explicitly said that she saw Slenderman, but a humanoid figure with a featureless face. It was only after she was introduced to the Slenderman myth that she made the connection, by her daughter who was familiar with the character. I've attached an image I found which included the sketch and pictures of Cecil side by side. The illustrations you posted are based on drawings of sea serpents, often called "monsters," that go back for hundreds of years, as well as the hoax photo of the Loch Ness Monster published in 1934.
When Brian McCleary was found, he estimated he had been in the water for 2 hours, but the doctors who examined him estimated it was closer to 5 hours. I don't know what you're trying to prove with your cartoon character nonsense, but the fact remains that three teenage boys disappeared in an area where the tide always washes bodies to shore. Some believe they were eaten by a shark and McCleary imagined it was a sea monster.
You also say, "McCleary said that it was a 'monster' in his Fate Magazine submission, not a sea snake. The definition of 'monster' is 'a large, ugly, and frightening imaginary creature.'" Dude, when you watch something eat three of your friends, it's a freaking "monster," no matter what the definition might be! Also, he didn't see the entire creature, so he would have no idea whether it was a "sea snake," or something with a body like that of a plesiosaurs.
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Post by Graveyardbride on Sept 24, 2021 16:28:28 GMT -5
Hi McCleary said it was green in color. Cecil is green. I think Jason pretty much said it all, but I would like to address your claim that McCleary’s saying the monster he saw was green was based on the fact “Cecil” is green: I did some checking and even assuming McCleary had seen the cartoon Beany and Cecil – which is doubtful – the show did not air in color until September 1962, so how would he have known Cecil was green in March? Additionally, it’s my understanding McCleary described the monster he saw as “brownish-green,” not the bright neon green of the cartoon character.
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Post by kosherdill on Sept 24, 2021 17:29:19 GMT -5
Hi The source I read about this case on (I forget which forum it was) made comparisons between the character 'Cecil' from 'Beany and Cecil' and the sketch that McCleary drew. Some of the similarities noticed were; McCleary said it was green in color. Cecil is green. McCleary said the neck 'bent in the middle'. The character is shown doing that many times in the show. Cecil has three long eye lashes near his eyes. McCleary's sketch does appear to include three eye lashes next to the eyes. This is one of the trademarks of the character. The dorsal fin at the back of the head, and the shape of the head, were very similar. McCleary said it was 10 feet tall. In the opening lyrics to Beany and Cecil, Cecil is literally described as being 10 feet tall. This incident happened just 2 months after Beany and Cecil started airing. It began airing in January, 1962. This incident happened in 30 foot deep water. Lastly, McCleary said that it was a ''monster'' in his Fate Magazine submission, not a sea snake. The definition of ''monster'' is ''a large, ugly, and frightening imaginary creature.''. I'm not sure if McCleary himself was familiar with the show, but a lot of people agreed that the similarities are striking. There was also a book which briefly touched on this case, which made the suggestion that the entity that killed McCleary's friends was a tulpa or 'thought form' which took a solid physical form. This case reminds me quite a lot like the Monique Jones one. She never explicitly said that she saw Slenderman, but a humanoid figure with a featureless face. It was only after she was introduced to the Slenderman myth that she made the connection, by her daughter who was familiar with the character. I've attached an image I found which included the sketch and pictures of Cecil side by side. The illustrations you posted are based on drawings of sea serpents, often called "monsters," that go back for hundreds of years, as well as the hoax photo of the Loch Ness Monster published in 1934.
When Brian McCleary was found, he estimated he had been in the water for 2 hours, but the doctors who examined him estimated it was closer to 5 hours. I don't know what you're trying to prove with your cartoon character nonsense, but the fact remains that three teenage boys disappeared in an area where the tide always washes bodies to shore. Some believe they were eaten by a shark and McCleary imagined it was a sea monster.
You also say, "McCleary said that it was a 'monster' in his Fate Magazine submission, not a sea snake. The definition of 'monster' is 'a large, ugly, and frightening imaginary creature.'" Dude, when you watch something eat three of your friends, it's a freaking "monster," no matter what the definition might be! Also, he didn't see the entire creature, so he would have no idea whether it was a "sea snake," or something with a body like that of a plesiosaurs. Victims of shark attacks don't describe the shark as some mythological monster. He meant monster as in a mythological creature. Either way you put it, he was still claiming that something fictional appeared in real life and killed his friends that day.
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Post by kosherdill on Sept 24, 2021 17:32:40 GMT -5
Hi McCleary said it was green in color. Cecil is green. I think Jason pretty much said it all, but I would like to address your claim that McCleary’s saying the monster he saw was green was based on the fact “Cecil” is green: I did some checking and even assuming McCleary had seen the cartoon Beany and Cecil – which is doubtful – the show did not air in color until September 1962, so how would he have known Cecil was green in March? Additionally, it’s my understanding McCleary described the monster he saw as “brownish-green,” not the bright neon green of the cartoon character.If the creators knew he was green and a Tulpa of Cecil appeared it'd make sense if he was green. Let's not forget that his sketch of the monster has three long eyelashes at the eyes. Cecil has three long eye lashes, and a 'dorsal fin' at the back of his head. The head shape is also exactly the same. Several people pointed this out. Sea serpents are fictional anyway so I don't get why you'd think a fictional creature killing people isn't nonsense, but a fictional character killing people is 'nonsense'. It's the exact same phenomenon.
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Post by catherine on Sept 24, 2021 17:49:37 GMT -5
Victims of shark attacks don't describe the shark as some mythological monster. He meant monster as in a mythological creature. Either way you put it, he was still claiming that something fictional appeared in real life and killed his friends that day. What do you know about victims of shark attacks? Have you ever even seen a shark while swimming in the ocean? I have and on one occasion when we were swimming in around 15 to 20 feet of water off Dauphin Island on the coast of Alabama where we used to have a vacation house, we narrowly escaped a humongous shark. There were four of us, yet everyone described the encounter and the size and appearance of the shark differently. Eyewitness testimony is unreliable in any situation because not everyone sees the same thing.
Also, I don't know where you got your definition of "monster," but "a large, ugly and frightening imaginary creature," is just one of several. Other definitions include: 1. an animal of strange or terrifying shape; 2. an animal or plant of abnormal form or structure; 3. a threatening force; 4. something monstrous (e.g., a person of unnatural or extreme ugliness, deformity, wickedness, or cruelty); .... No matter which way you put it, Brian McCleary wasn't describing "something fictional."
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Post by kosherdill on Sept 24, 2021 17:51:54 GMT -5
Victims of shark attacks don't describe the shark as some mythological monster. He meant monster as in a mythological creature. Either way you put it, he was still claiming that something fictional appeared in real life and killed his friends that day. What do you know about victims of shark attacks? Have you ever even seen a shark while swimming in the ocean? I have and on one occasion when we were swimming in around 15 to 20 feet of water off Dauphin Island off the coast of Alabama where we used to have a vacation house, we narrowly escaped a humongous shark. There were four of us, yet everyone described the encounter and the size of the shark differently. Eyewitness testimony is unreliable in any situation because not everyone sees the same thing.
Also, I don't know where you got your definition of "monster," but "a large, ugly and frightening imaginary creature," is just one of several. Other definitions include: 1. an animal of strange or terrifying shape; 2. an animal or plant of abnormal form or structure; 3. a threatening force; 4. something monstrous (e.g., a person of unnatural or extreme ugliness, deformity, wickedness, or cruelty); .... No matter which way you put it, Brian McCleary wasn't describing "something fictional."He was describing a sea serpent. Which is a fictional creature, and a type of mythological dragon. It's like the story of Monique Jones and her seeing Slenderman - who is also a mythological creature. www.softschools.com/facts/fiction/dragons_facts/2727/Dragons Facts Dragons are fictional creatures that have existed in many cultures in mythology and folklore since the beginning of ancient Greek, Egyptian, and Asian societies. There are generally two types of dragons - the Asian dragons and the European dragons, with many different variations of each.''
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Post by JoannaL on Sept 24, 2021 20:51:55 GMT -5
He was describing a sea serpent. Which is a fictional creature, and a type of mythological dragon. It's like the story of Monique Jones and her seeing Slenderman - who is also a mythological creature. www.softschools.com/facts/fiction/dragons_facts/2727/Dragons Facts Dragons are fictional creatures that have existed in many cultures in mythology and folklore since the beginning of ancient Greek, Egyptian, and Asian societies. There are generally two types of dragons - the Asian dragons and the European dragons, with many different variations of each.'' On this site, we discuss all things strange, including cryptid creatures. A “cryptid” is an animal, the existence of which is disputed, and sea serpents (monsters) fall within the cryptid category. This being said, just because you repeatedly comment that sea serpents are “mythological,” “fictional characters,” or whatever, doesn’t mean they cannot, and do not, exist. Marine cryptids have been reported in both the sea and bodies of fresh water for centuries. Regardless of what you believe, three young men vanished without a trace. If they weren’t eaten by something, what do you suppose happened to them? If you choose to continue this discussion, you need to come up with a better argument.
Those aren’t “eyelashes,” they’re either wrinkles or barbels (slender, whisker-like sensory organs), like the ones shown in this 19th-century illustration of a sea monster. - Joanna (group owner)
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Post by kosherdill on Sept 24, 2021 21:21:42 GMT -5
He was describing a sea serpent. Which is a fictional creature, and a type of mythological dragon. It's like the story of Monique Jones and her seeing Slenderman - who is also a mythological creature. www.softschools.com/facts/fiction/dragons_facts/2727/Dragons Facts Dragons are fictional creatures that have existed in many cultures in mythology and folklore since the beginning of ancient Greek, Egyptian, and Asian societies. There are generally two types of dragons - the Asian dragons and the European dragons, with many different variations of each.'' On this site, we discuss all things strange, including cryptid creatures. A “cryptid” is an animal, the existence of which is disputed, and sea serpents (monsters) fall within the cryptid category. This being said, just because you repeatedly comment that sea serpents are “mythological,” “fictional characters,” or whatever, doesn’t mean they cannot, and do not, exist. Marine cryptids have been reported in both the sea and bodies of fresh water for centuries. Regardless of what you believe, three young men vanished without a trace. If they weren’t eaten by something, what do you suppose happened to them? If you choose to continue this discussion, you need to come up with a better argument.
Those aren’t “eyelashes,” they’re either wrinkles or babels (slender, whisker-like sensory organs), like the ones shown in this 19th-century illustration of a sea monster. - Joanna (group owner)
Under the same logic, you could say we cannot say that fictional characters don't, or cannot exist either. There have been sightings of fictional characters. All reputable educational sources say that dragons are fictional, and that applies to things like John Constantine and Slenderman also. Those are eyelashes. They don't look like whiskers at all.
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Post by kosherdill on Sept 24, 2021 21:27:25 GMT -5
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Post by JoannaL on Sept 24, 2021 23:43:02 GMT -5
Under the same logic, you could say we cannot say that fictional characters don't, or cannot exist either. There have been sightings of fictional characters. All reputable educational sources say that dragons are fictional, and that applies to things like John Constantine and Slenderman also. Those are eyelashes. They don't look like whiskers at all. No, the “same logic” does not apply because believing fictional characters, which are created out of whole cloth, may exist, is an absence of logic. Cryptids result from repeated sightings. The two aren’t comparable.
Until 1910, all reputable educational sources said Komodo dragons were fictional.
They don’t look like eyelashes at all and McCleary was familiar enough with marine life to know water creatures do not have eyelashes.
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