|
Post by Isbeau on Jul 31, 2018 0:52:43 GMT -5
Here's a genealogical website recounting a family mystery about a grandfather who seemed to hold a family secret, including his real identity. See if you come up with the same possible solution that I did.
|
|
|
Post by jane on Jul 31, 2018 11:22:26 GMT -5
I don't see the connection. People keep all kinds of secrets and people changed their names for all kinds of reasons. I have an ancestor who changed his name and moved to another state because he had gone AWOL from the army and didn't want to get caught. He lived the rest of his life as someone else, but on his deathbed, he asked for a Bible and wrote who he really was and why he changed his name on one of the front pages where there was space to write it.
|
|
|
Post by Isbeau on Jul 31, 2018 18:23:11 GMT -5
Jane,
he did re-enlist under a different name after being discharged for being medically unfit. But that's not the same as going AWOL.
He was always in the army so I don't see where he could have gotten into trouble.
|
|
|
Post by jane on Aug 1, 2018 8:46:45 GMT -5
Jane, he did re-enlist under a different name after being discharged for being medically unfit. But that's not the same as going AWOL. He was always in the army so I don't see where he could have gotten into trouble. Okay maybe I'm seeing things. I said that my ancestor went AWOL, I wasn't implying that O'Sullivan/Wilson went AWOL. All I was trying to say was that people change their names for all kinds of reasons and that their deep, dark secrets are more likely to be commonplace than extraordinary.
|
|
|
Post by Isbeau on Aug 1, 2018 19:50:58 GMT -5
What did he do that the salvation army would save his neck?
He's Irish so I don't think he has much problem or shame about breaking a few laws in England enough to keep it a secret from his family like it's a big disgrace. Although they might have been landed gentry in Northern Ireland so maybe they're ashamed.
|
|
|
Post by Isbeau on Aug 6, 2018 14:01:10 GMT -5
I added a poll. So does something lie beyond, something big small or nothing at all?
|
|
|
Post by madeline on Aug 6, 2018 17:27:30 GMT -5
I added a poll. So does something lie beyond, something big small or nothing at all? I voted that it was worth looking into, but I don't think that it's very likely that she was anything other than a common street woman. I don't remember reading anywhere that she spoke like a woman from a middle class family.
|
|
|
Post by Isbeau on Aug 7, 2018 16:42:06 GMT -5
Thanks, Madeline.
I won’t say too much to skew the response but I will say something about different approaches by commentators. I used to think the sensationalists were the ones not to be trusted but the skeptical ones who like to be dry if not boring are often promoting their own agenda too even if it looks like they’re not trying to make money by mass appeal.
|
|
|
Post by jason on Aug 7, 2018 18:22:33 GMT -5
Thanks, Madeline. I won’t say too much to skew the response but I will say something about different approaches by commentators. I used to think the sensationalists were the ones not to be trusted but the skeptical ones who like to be dry if not boring are often promoting their own agenda too even if it looks like they’re not trying to make money by mass appeal.
Are you somehow related to this O'Sullivan/Wilson character? If you're not, I don't understand why you're so interested in who he was and the "true" identity of Mary Kelly. Whatever your reasons, I don't believe that some man killed four women because he didn't want to draw attention to his wife's murder. I know there are some crazy people in the world, but the woman was a street whore and had he killed no one but her, by strangling her, cutting her throat, or whatever, neither the police, nor anyone else, would have paid any attention because street women were killed all the time. The only reason Jack the Ripper drew attention is because of the number killed and the way in which he killed them.
|
|
|
Post by Isbeau on Aug 24, 2018 3:13:48 GMT -5
... neither the police, nor anyone else, would have paid any attention because street women were killed all the time. The only reason Jack the Ripper drew attention is because of the number killed and the way in which he killed them.
Hi Jason,
Are you saying that he drew attention by accident? Because of his M.O. and the number? Do you think the M.O. was not intentional, that he didn't have the intention of grabbing attention?
I think he's a spectacle killer out to get noticed. It takes a lot to get noticed for killing prostitutes. Just look at the Hillside Stranglers.
I know the victims didn't grab attention. It was only 90 years later with the 'special' baby theories. And with the latest "romanticizing" about Mary Jane Kelly.
...But anything that goes unsolved or unresolved even for a few weeks like the Kennedy assassination will draw people in who will fill in the dots themselves....
Not that there still may not be dots that need connecting....
|
|
|
Post by jason on Aug 24, 2018 15:15:40 GMT -5
... neither the police, nor anyone else, would have paid any attention because street women were killed all the time. The only reason Jack the Ripper drew attention is because of the number killed and the way in which he killed them.
Hi Jason,
Are you saying that he drew attention by accident? Because of his M.O. and the number? Do you think the M.O. was not intentional, that he didn't have the intention of grabbing attention?
I think he's a spectacle killer out to get noticed. It takes a lot to get noticed for killing prostitutes. Just look at the Hillside Stranglers.
I know the victims didn't grab attention. It was only 90 years later with the 'special' baby theories. And with the latest "romanticizing" about Mary Jane Kelly.
...But anything that goes unsolved or unresolved even for a few weeks like the Kennedy assassination will draw people in who will fill in the dots themselves....
Not that there still may not be dots that need connecting....
Because Jack the Ripper has never been identified, we don't even know if all the murders were committed by the same man. Some of them could have been copycat killings.
Weston-Davies expects people to believe that a man named Francis Spurzheim Craig killed four women so that he could kill his wife, Mary Kelly, and everyone would believe she was part of a series of murders. Anyone who believes that needs to have his head examined. If he had strangled his alleged wife, the police would have shrugged it off as the cost of "doing business." Mary Kelly's family couldn't even be bothered to attend her funeral or see that she got a Catholic burial, so they wouldn't have insisted that the police investigate her murder. "If" Mary Kelly was really Craig's wife (which I seriously doubt), there's a slight possibility that he took advantage of the other murders to do in his wife, knowing that she would be chalked up as another Ripper victim, but no way would a man who had worked as a newspaper reporter kill four other women just so that he could kill his wife and people would think she was number 5 in a series. That's one of the most harebrained things I've ever heard and I'm surprised Weston-Davies was able to find someone to publish such poppycock.
|
|
|
Post by Isbeau on Aug 25, 2018 1:56:24 GMT -5
Jason,
Are you saying it’s not worth investigating William Wilson even if his mother is THE Mary Jane Kelly because she was just a “common whore” as Ripperologists proclaim?
|
|
|
Post by jason on Aug 25, 2018 14:31:23 GMT -5
Jason, Are you saying it’s not worth investigating William Wilson even if his mother is THE Mary Jane Kelly because she was just a “common whore” as Ripperologists proclaim? You read a lot into what people say that isn't there. If I thought that Mary Kelly wasn't worth investigating because she was a "common whore," that's what I would have said. I said that her death (without the four others) wouldn't have attracted a lot of attention because she was a common whore. I do not, nor did I say, that I opposed the investigation of William Wilson or Mary Kelly. I said that I don't believe the claims of Weston-Davies that Craig killed four other women to cover up his murder of Mary Kelly.
|
|
|
Post by Isbeau on Aug 25, 2018 19:11:13 GMT -5
All prostitutes are considered common when you don't know her clientele. The media will keep it a secret. Obviously, prostitutes don't work to cater to the poor sod. They want rich guys and they do get them. Prostitute/courtesans were popular at the time.
The idea of a crazy guy waiting for the so-called victim of opportunity is more ridiculous than Weston-Davies idea of a guy killing his wife and covering it up with other killings. Some say that with the Joe Barnett theory, where MJK's boyfriend killed her after first trying to scare her off the street.
All the victims were above average in age for prostitutes in the area. All the identified ones were English and one Swede. I've heard of killers coming from way out of town and killing girls specifically of their own race when they could have killed others.
Mary Jane Kelly of Irish descent did not fit the pattern but she had just broken up with her boyfriend and was living alone so that could be looked at as an indoor victim of opportunity.
|
|
|
Post by jason on Aug 26, 2018 22:59:26 GMT -5
All prostitutes are considered common when you don't know her clientele. The media will keep it a secret. Obviously, prostitutes don't work to cater to the poor sod. They want rich guys and they do get them. Prostitute/courtesans were popular at the time.
The idea of a crazy guy waiting for the so-called victim of opportunity is more ridiculous than Weston-Davies idea of a guy killing his wife and covering it up with other killings. Some say that with the Joe Barnett theory, where MJK's boyfriend killed her after first trying to scare her off the street. All the victims were above average in age for prostitutes in the area. All the identified ones were English and one Swede. I've heard of killers coming from way out of town and killing girls specifically of their own race when they could have killed others. Mary Jane Kelly of Irish descent did not fit the pattern but she had just broken up with her boyfriend and was living alone so that could be looked at as an indoor victim of opportunity. Rich guys didn't have to go to White Chapel and find a street whore, they could afford to go to brothels.
|
|