|
Post by pat on Aug 1, 2017 14:08:30 GMT -5
Have there been any new developments in the past 2 weeks? Just before I left to go to visit in New Jersey, I read about where another of the girls claimed that she was taken to see the body of Sister Cathy by a police officer, but that the body was at a different location from where it was found later. After the officer showed her the body, he raped her on the back of the patrol car. Some of them also said that the police would take the girls on "ride alongs" and rape them. A lot of times when I've gone back to look for something I've read on this case, it isn't there, but the link where I read it is rapevictimsofthecatholicchurch.wordpress.com/?s=Maskell
|
|
beta
New Member
Posts: 36
|
Post by beta on Aug 4, 2017 15:21:34 GMT -5
I believe that I saw something in an old Baltimore Sun from 1969 that said something about Billy Schmidt living near, or maybe across the hall, from Cathy Cesnik, but it could have been on some other site. There's so much online now about this case that it's hard to go back and find anything. Do you have some reason to doubt that he lived near her? I don't think he had anything to do with her murder because he was supposed to be queer.
Something else that I don't believe is the story that Maskell and someone else, I forget who, pushed their way into the nun's apartment the night before she went missing. Do you know if Sister Russell ever confirmed that Maskell came to their apartment the night before? You're probably thinking of one of the more recent articles, discussing the case but including all the new post-Keepers references. I did find an article from '69 or '70 that referred to a neighbor, but the neighbor was not named in the piece and was not under investigation -- the journalist was making some general reference. As far as I can tell, Schmidt was not known to the investigators at all in '69 or any time afterward during the investigation. There are a couple reasons I'm skeptical that he lived there, and I have to credit a poster on one of the main Facebook pages for finding most of this info. If you look at the phone directory for Cathy's block, there's no Charles William Schmidt, William Schmidt, Billy Schmidt, etc, listed. And, I haven't been able to confirm the date yet, but there's also a city directory that shows Billy living with his wife, Virginia -- the poster believes it's from 1956. I asked if there was a bigger image with a date, or how she came up with that time but that question got lost in the fray. In any case, if Billy had already been married to Virginia it also means it's very unlikely that he would have been stopping by to dance with Barbara at her home, to help her lose baby weight after Sharon was born, as she claims in The Keepers. In fact, he'd have had his own infant son at the time, Raymond, who was born a year before Sharon. Most of this CAN be discovered directly from the series -- if you zoom in on some of the things they were showing on screen while Barbara talked. I was transcribing large chunks of the audio, looking down at my screen and typing, and as a result I missed some of what was being shown, but most of these clues are there. But they are fleeting, shown for a moment without much (or any) context, and then gone. Phone directory: i.imgur.com/k13X4D7.pngCity directory: i.imgur.com/SXgT8DL.jpg(I was going to post the images right here in this post, but they're showing up at full size and taking up most of the screen)
|
|
beta
New Member
Posts: 36
|
Post by beta on Aug 4, 2017 15:58:27 GMT -5
Have there been any new developments in the past 2 weeks? Just before I left to go to visit in New Jersey, I read about where another of the girls claimed that she was taken to see the body of Sister Cathy by a police officer, but that the body was at a different location from where it was found later. After the officer showed her the body, he raped her on the back of the patrol car. Some of them also said that the police would take the girls on "ride alongs" and rape them. A lot of times when I've gone back to look for something I've read on this case, it isn't there, but the link where I read it is rapevictimsofthecatholicchurch.wordpress.com/?s=Maskell
I remember hearing or reading that too. I can't recall offhand, but it might have been mentioned in The Keepers. There are so many anonymous accounts, and the series included them by having Gemma or Abbie tell those stories to the camera (" someone came forward anonymously who said..."). I think this might have been one of those accounts. In fairness, apparently there was a LOT of footage, much of which were from interviews, and they had to pare down the number of people talking so viewers had a chance of keeping track. So he narrowed it down to a few key story tellers, like Gemma, Abbie, and the two journalists, and some of those " someone came forward" accounts were probably part of that effort to not introduce too many names and faces. As for new developments, I don't know how new it is, but the retired policeman, Scannell, who was the first at the crime scene when Cesnik's body was found, has now been officially accused. Or maybe unofficially, because it's probably another accusation of the " someone contacted us anonymously" variety. I didn't then, and still don't believe Scannell had any involvement in the murder or any alleged abuse. But Scannell had 3 strikes against him: 1] he was a friend of Maskell, 2] he was very skeptical of Doe and Roe and recovered memories, and when asked why he thought Doe and Roe would say things that aren't true, what reason would they have, he responded "I can think of 40 million reasons" (or something similar), and 3] Gemma, Abbie and Nugent (and maybe Bob Erlandson?) were suspicious of him. I suspect many of these people featured in The Keepers will, over the course of the next year or so, have false accusations levelled against them. Koob, Scannell, maybe even Childs, the Baltimore County Police detective, and even Sharon May might be hit with some. When it comes to recovered memories, everyone is fair game. Jason, I forgot to answer your question earlier: No, Russell did not confirm that anyone else was at their apartment that night. Of course, everyone is convinced that Russell knew more than she let on, and that might well be the case, but I agree with you. I don't think there was a big confrontation with Magnus and Maskell, or that other students had stopped by that night. At least 2 different Keough students now claim to have been there the night before. And I bet more will come out of the woodwork insisting they, too, were there that fateful night...
|
|
|
Post by Graveyardbride on Aug 4, 2017 18:06:04 GMT -5
This afternoon, I received an email indicating "Jerry Smith" had posted a message on Inside Baltimore, which he addressed to me as follows:
I just noticed this guy lee. Picking on abused women. You are sick for one. My number is 443-275-3117. Call me and we can meet and I will give you my opinion in person coward. And I have a feeling you won’t be standing up long
I immediately called Smith, but there was no answer, so I left a message asking that he return my call -- he hasn't. I also posted the following message on Inside Baltimore and last time I checked, it was still there:
I just received the following message from Jerry Smith: "I just noticed this guy lee. Picking on abused women. You are sick for one. My number is 443-275-3117. Call me and we can meet and I will give you my opinion in person coward. And I have a feeling you won’t be standing up long"
First, Mr. Smith, I'm not a "guy." I just called the above number and left a message, so I'm looking forward to speaking and meeting with you. I do not appreciate being threatened and if you threaten me again, expect a visit from the police.
It probably won't be there long, but here's the link: insidebaltimore.org/2016/11/05/archdiocese-of-baltimore-gives-40000-to-reported-childhood-multiple-rape-victim-apologizes-for-pain-you-have-experienced/#comments
I'm more convinced than ever that everyone associated with the Sacred Cows is as mentally-unbalanced as they are. I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of those heifers put Jerry Smith up to threatening me, thinking I would cower in fear instead of confronting him.
|
|
beta
New Member
Posts: 36
|
Post by beta on Aug 4, 2017 20:31:02 GMT -5
I immediately called Smith, but there was no answer, so I left a message asking that he return my call -- he hasn't. [... snipped for brevity]
I'm more convinced than ever that everyone associated with the Sacred Cows is as mentally-unbalanced as they are. I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of those heifers put Jerry Smith up to threatening me, thinking I would cower in fear instead of confronting him.
I love that you did this! I took some screenshots and saved a copy of the page in case they delete your comment, although I guess that's overkill since we have record of it here on the forum. I wish I'd managed to catch "Jerry Smith's" comment, too, but it's great that you quoted it. Any objective readers who come across that article will have a nice glimpse at how unhinged some of their "supporters" are. And I agree, I wouldn't put it past some of them to have encouraged Jerry Smith to defend their honor.
|
|
beta
New Member
Posts: 36
|
Post by beta on Aug 4, 2017 22:11:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by pat on Aug 6, 2017 12:50:12 GMT -5
beta: Thanks for posting the link to Nugent's most recent article. You're right, it's just supposition. While I do think that the same person (or persons) may have killed the nun, the Italian girl and the two teenage girls, the police were never able to link any of them.
Lee: This Jerry Smith sounds like he's not playing with a full deck because only a fool would post his phone number on social media. You're not in the same state, so you don't have anything to worry about, but someone who makes a comment like that is looking for an excuse and if anyone who lives in Baltimore dared to say that they didn't believe the women that he seems to have latched onto, I think that he could be dangerous. Maybe you ought to contact the Baltimore police so that they can keep him on their radar.
|
|
|
Post by madeline on Aug 6, 2017 23:11:37 GMT -5
Re: the bolded part, I suspect it's a combination of typing the response on her phone, and just being from a generation that, in general, isn't always comfortable with electronic media and communications. Donna VonDenBosch's communication problem goes beyond being uncomfortable with electronic media. I just saw an interview she gave and she can't communicate any better speaking than she can typing on a phone. She looks and acts retarded.
baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/11/21/woman-claiming-sexual-abuse-by-father-maskell-speaks-out/
Have you read the latest update in the "If I Should Ever Leave You Thread"? Looks like a reporter is finally asking some of the questions that we've all been asking.
|
|
|
Post by catherine on Aug 7, 2017 3:27:42 GMT -5
I have found three different versions of the Sacred Cow Donna VanDenBosch's story about the rape at the picnic. In the one on the Inside Baltimore site, she says: "He got out and came over to me and started taking my pants down. Then he put his knee between my legs and forced them apart and began raping me."
In one I saw on Facebook, she claims that she was taken to a hidden part of the park and raped. In yet another, she says that she became woozy from something they had put into her drink, fell and the priest, or whoever it was, jumped on top of her.
Catherine, do you happen to remember where that Facebook post can be found? I'd love to take a look at that, if it's still accessible. I found her post by accident. I'm not a Facebook member, so all the time I was reading, I kept getting these log-in notices that took up half the page and didn't copy the link. It was a looong statement and I seem to remember that it had a date of either 2008 or 2011. I did find two other comments of hers where she contradicted herself about the picnic. They are:
(1) She also said Maskell once handed her what she assumes was a spiked drink at an outdoor Catholic Youth Organization picnic when she was 14, led her away from the other freshmen students at dusk and stood by as a black-haired, uniformed policeman raped her in a remote area of the park. “I felt drugged,” she said. www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/14/cesnik-nun-murder-maskell_n_7267532.html (In this version, she says she was raped by Maskell and a policeman.)
(2) She opened up to WJZ’s Denise Koch, telling her how she was served a drug-laced soda at a Catholic youth picnic, then raped by Maskell and another priest.
“I’m just woozy, I fall down, he lays (sic) on top of me, he puts his legs in between my legs to spread my legs apart and rapes me,” she says. baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/11/21/woman-claiming-sexual-abuse-by-father-maskell-speaks-out/ (This time she says she was raped by Maskell and another priest.)
Both of these statements contradict her statement on the Inside Baltimore article:
“Father [E. Neil] Magnus, who also taught at the school, appeared at the picnic in the passenger seat of a police car,” she recalled during a recent interview. “I was given a drink that must have had drugs in it, because I became weak and dizzy,” she said. “Then I was called over to the police car, and I saw Father Magnus sitting in it.
“He got out and came over to me and started taking my pants down. Then he put his knee between my legs and forced them apart and began raping me. Meanwhile, a second priest – Father [A.] Joseph Maskell, who had been my parish priest before becoming the chaplain at Keough High School and whom I’d known since the age of 12 – stood there looking on as Father Magnus raped me. And then Father Maskell decided to take his turn, and he raped me.” insidebaltimore.org/2016/11/05/archdiocese-of-baltimore-gives-40000-to-reported-childhood-multiple-rape-victim-apologizes-for-pain-you-have-experienced/ (In version 3, she's raped by Maskell and Magnus and doesn't mention the black-haired policeman.)
|
|
|
Post by catherine on Aug 7, 2017 3:40:50 GMT -5
Re: the bolded part, I suspect it's a combination of typing the response on her phone, and just being from a generation that, in general, isn't always comfortable with electronic media and communications. Donna VonDenBosch's communication problem goes beyond being uncomfortable with electronic media. I just saw an interview she gave and she can't communicate any better speaking than she can typing on a phone. She looks and acts retarded.
baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/11/21/woman-claiming-sexual-abuse-by-father-maskell-speaks-out/
Have you read the latest update in the "If I Should Ever Leave You Thread"? Looks like a reporter is finally asking some of the questions that we've all been asking.
I agree with Madeline. This cow is suffering from some kind of mental deficiency. In one of her statements that I quoted above, she says, "I fall down, he lays (sic) on top of me." Unless he was laying eggs, he didn't lay on top of her. All you have to do is look at her slovenly appearance (that dress is at least 2 sizes too small) and listen to the uneducated, uncultured manner in which she speaks to know she's white trash. Still, the Sacred Cow that I most despise and the one I'd like to slap the crap out of is Jean Wehner. In every photo and interview I've seen, she always has that same constipated look on her face.
|
|
|
Post by pat on Aug 7, 2017 13:35:52 GMT -5
I agree with Madeline. This cow is suffering from some kind of mental deficiency. In one of her statements that I quoted above, she says, "I fall down, he lays (sic) on top of me." Unless he was laying eggs, he didn't lay on top of her. All you have to do is look at her slovenly appearance (that dress is at least 2 sizes too small) and listen to the uneducated, uncultured manner in which she speaks to know she's white trash. Still, the Sacred Cow that I most despise and the one I'd like to slap the crap out of is Jean Wehner. In every photo and interview I've seen, she always has that same constipated look on her face. I watched the interview and she doesn't seem very bright. She's not a nurse practitioner I'd want treating me, or a member of my family.
"Constipated" is a good description of the look on Wehner's face and I also find it irritating.
|
|
|
Post by Graveyardbride on Aug 9, 2017 1:57:10 GMT -5
I found her post by accident. I'm not a Facebook member, so all the time I was reading, I kept getting these log-in notices that took up half the page and didn't copy the link. It was a looong statement and I seem to remember that it had a date of either 2008 or 2011. I did find two other comments of hers where she contradicted herself about the picnic. They are:(1) She also said Maskell once handed her what she assumes was a spiked drink at an outdoor Catholic Youth Organization picnic when she was 14, led her away from the other freshmen students at dusk and stood by as a black-haired, uniformed policeman raped her in a remote area of the park. “I felt drugged,” she said. www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/14/cesnik-nun-murder-maskell_n_7267532.html (In this version, she says she was raped by Maskell and a policeman.)
(2) She opened up to WJZ’s Denise Koch, telling her how she was served a drug-laced soda at a Catholic youth picnic, then raped by Maskell and another priest.
“I’m just woozy, I fall down, he lays (sic) on top of me, he puts his legs in between my legs to spread my legs apart and rapes me,” she says. baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/11/21/woman-claiming-sexual-abuse-by-father-maskell-speaks-out/ (This time she says she was raped by Maskell and another priest.) Both of these statements contradict her statement on the Inside Baltimore article: “Father [E. Neil] Magnus, who also taught at the school, appeared at the picnic in the passenger seat of a police car,” she recalled during a recent interview. “I was given a drink that must have had drugs in it, because I became weak and dizzy,” she said. “Then I was called over to the police car, and I saw Father Magnus sitting in it.
“He got out and came over to me and started taking my pants down. Then he put his knee between my legs and forced them apart and began raping me. Meanwhile, a second priest – Father [A.] Joseph Maskell, who had been my parish priest before becoming the chaplain at Keough High School and whom I’d known since the age of 12 – stood there looking on as Father Magnus raped me. And then Father Maskell decided to take his turn, and he raped me.” insidebaltimore.org/2016/11/05/archdiocese-of-baltimore-gives-40000-to-reported-childhood-multiple-rape-victim-apologizes-for-pain-you-have-experienced/ (In version 3, she's raped by Maskell and Magnus and doesn't mention the black-haired policeman.) In June, I posted the contradictions in Vondenbosch’s stories about the picnic rape in the comments section of a news article about The Keepers. However, the following day when I checked to see if anyone had replied to my post, it had been deleted.
She didn’t mention Fr. Magnus in her initial account of the picnic rape, only Fr. Maskell and the “black-haired” policeman. In her second account, as you noted, she didn’t mention the policeman, who had somehow morphed into a “priest.” But in the third account, it was Fr. Magnus, not a “policeman,” who “got out” and “put his knee between my legs ....” Fr. Magnus, as Vondenbosch admitted, taught at her school, so she certainly knew him, so why didn’t she mention him in her first account? or by name in the second account? And what happened to the dark-haired policeman? This woman is a bold-faced liar and so stupid she can’t keep her stories straight.
|
|
|
Post by Kate on Aug 9, 2017 12:28:47 GMT -5
Over the next few days, Eva Cruz became consumed with the sound of water slapping against the hull of a boat and the idea that something had happened between her and Maskell. [...] The parish crab feast called up a series of fragmented impressions: Maskell’s car, the floor of a boat, water slapping. Physical pain. Being dropped off at the St. Clement rectory. At the urging of a priest friend, she arranged to meet with archdiocesan officials in her therapist’s Columbia office in October 1994. Cruz brought her mother. Father Richard Woy and attorney Thomas Dame represented the archdiocese. Cruz told the group that Maskell had taken her to a boat and that she was convinced the two had had intercourse, and also that he had penetrated her with an object she couldn’t picture. If "Eva Nelson Cruz" is really Donna Von Den Bosch, is she talking about the same picnic in the park that she kept changing what happened, or is this a different rape? If this is the same rape, she doesn't say anything about a boat in the 3 examples that Catherine posted.
One of the things that bothers me is how these priests and police officers were having sex with underage girls all over the place - in parks, at picnics, at school, on police "ride alongs" and everywhere else and not once did anyone ever see them and why weren't they afraid of getting caught?
Something else that I have a problem with is Maskell taking Jean to see the body to scare her into keeping quiet. In the other thread, there's a very good point made that after he showed her the body, that if she did decide to spill the beans, she would have proof that what she was saying was true. She might not have known how to get back to the body site, but he couldn't be sure that she didn't remember any landmarks nearby, like the car shop owned by the Schmidt family. So instead of convincing her to keep quiet, he was taking a huge chance by showing her the body.
|
|
|
Post by kitty on Aug 10, 2017 0:40:39 GMT -5
I agree with Madeline. This cow is suffering from some kind of mental deficiency. In one of her statements that I quoted above, she says, "I fall down, he lays (sic) on top of me." Unless he was laying eggs, he didn't lay on top of her. All you have to do is look at her slovenly appearance (that dress is at least 2 sizes too small) and listen to the uneducated, uncultured manner in which she speaks to know she's white trash. Still, the Sacred Cow that I most despise and the one I'd like to slap the crap out of is Jean Wehner. In every photo and interview I've seen, she always has that same constipated look on her face.
I wouldn't say that her dress is 2 sizes too small, but she definitely needs a larger size. I agree, she doesn't look or talk like an educated woman.
|
|
|
Post by Joanna on Aug 10, 2017 9:57:44 GMT -5
I agree with Madeline. This cow is suffering from some kind of mental deficiency. In one of her statements that I quoted above, she says, "I fall down, he lays (sic) on top of me." Unless he was laying eggs, he didn't lay on top of her. All you have to do is look at her slovenly appearance (that dress is at least 2 sizes too small) and listen to the uneducated, uncultured manner in which she speaks to know she's white trash. Still, the Sacred Cow that I most despise and the one I'd like to slap the crap out of is Jean Wehner. In every photo and interview I've seen, she always has that same constipated look on her face.
Either the film was edited, or in this interview, Donna VonDenBosch said that Maskell was the priest who jumped on top of her and separated her legs with his knee.
Something else that I found odd was that the reporter said, "Donna has a very successful professional and private life," yet, the interior of her house doesn't look like the home of a professionally successful family.
|
|