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Post by nosygrandma on Oct 26, 2015 14:43:42 GMT -5
I guess that's what makes this forum interesting. The difference in opinion. I have no credentials to assure anyone that I know what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is what I have gleaned from studying Bundy and other killers for the last 40 years. If you understand serial killers and why they do what they do then you are one. No thanks, don't care to be one.
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Post by jason on Oct 26, 2015 14:58:41 GMT -5
I guess that's what makes this forum interesting. The difference in opinion. I have no credentials to assure anyone that I know what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is what I have gleaned from studying Bundy and other killers for the last 40 years. If you understand serial killers and why they do what they do then you are one. No thanks, don't care to be one. You apparently give credence to what authors, profilers, etc. have written about Bundy, while Lee, quite obviously, doubts much of it. Why would two people who have studied serial killers for years have such widely differing opinions?
Last year, there was an article posted about the Macdonald Triad, which some believe and others dismiss as poppycock. Do you think the homicidal triad is a predictor of violence, or just another urban myth? Here's the link:
whatliesbeyond.boards.net/thread/1076/homicidal-triad-violence-indicator-urban
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Post by madeline on Oct 26, 2015 17:51:46 GMT -5
Some people of limited intelligence may think "no conscience means not knowing the difference between right and wrong," but I don't. What I'd like to know is why you and Lee are so at odds in your opinions of Bundy? Why do you believe his illegitimacy and living in a less-than-perfect environment to the age of 4 (which isn't very long) turned him into a conscienceless, pathologically lying serial killer? Either a person is born with a conscience, or he's not. I've read a lot about Ted and I wouldn't say that he didn't have a conscience. Except for the theft and killing, he seemed to be a pretty decent person. I don't know what caused him to kill women, but I don't think that it was because of anything that happened in his childhood. Whatever it was, he was born with it.
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Post by Sam on Oct 27, 2015 6:42:45 GMT -5
Some people of limited intelligence may think "no conscience means not knowing the difference between right and wrong," but I don't. What I'd like to know is why you and Lee are so at odds in your opinions of Bundy? Why do you believe his illegitimacy and living in a less-than-perfect environment to the age of 4 (which isn't very long) turned him into a conscienceless, pathologically lying serial killer? Either a person is born with a conscience, or he's not. I've read a lot about Ted and I wouldn't say that he didn't have a conscience. Except for the theft and killing, he seemed to be a pretty decent person. I don't know what caused him to kill women, but I don't think that it was because of anything that happened in his childhood. Whatever it was, he was born with it.
I agree with you, Madeline. I think that whatever causes a person to kill is something that they're born with. If something terrible happens to them, it might make the basic problem worse, but because the same thing could happen to another person and he wouldn't start killing, whatever it is, must already be there. Maybe Lee's right. Maybe if Bundy hadn't started trying to figure out why he was the way he was, he wouldn't have every allowed that part of him to surface.
Question: I've seen that some people have just part of what someone says in a quote. How do you do that? I wanted just Madeline's quote.
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Post by aprillynn93 on Oct 27, 2015 12:49:09 GMT -5
Sam,
If you click "Reply" at the very top of the thread, instead of typing in the bottom quick reply window, you get the full range of options, including a quote button where you can paste just a partial quote. Just copy the text you want to quote out of the persons post.
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Post by nosygrandma on Oct 27, 2015 13:43:52 GMT -5
I must say this is the first forum that believes Bundy had a conscience A conscience is all that separates us from the animals. Animals kill without remorse because they need to eat or protect their terrtory. Humans do it because they feel nothing for their fellow human beings. And they like it. I'm done posting on this thread. Im wasting my time. I'm out. Oh and if you can look at the mother of one of Bundys victims and tell her he seemed like a " nice guy" then you have more guts than I
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Post by catherine on Oct 27, 2015 20:10:16 GMT -5
I must say this is the first forum that believes Bundy had a conscience A conscience is all that separates us from the animals. Animals kill without remorse because they need to eat or protect their terrtory. Humans do it because they feel nothing for their fellow human beings. And they like it. I'm done posting on this thread. Im wasting my time. I'm out. Oh and if you can look at the mother of one of Bundys victims and tell her he seemed like a " nice guy" then you have more guts than I So because some people don't totally agree with you, then you won't post on this subject? That's narrow-minded, don't you think? Differences of opinion are what makes these discussions interesting. I don't like forums where everyone agrees with me because they're pointless. Reading and considering what others say is thought-provoking. Lee's theory that changing his major to psychology is one of the most interesting that I've ever heard about him because it's different.
One of the things that's the most fascinating about Ted Bundy is that for the most part, he was a "nice guy" and the fact that a nice guy could transform into a monster is what made him so dangerous. He was considered such a nice guy that no one even suspected him. There was definitely something wrong with him, but I'm not going to say that he had no conscience, like an animal, because if that were true, then he would have killed indiscriminately instead of picking his victims so carefully and making such an effort not to get caught.
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Post by Sam on Oct 27, 2015 22:15:39 GMT -5
I must say this is the first forum that believes Bundy had a conscience A conscience is all that separates us from the animals. Animals kill without remorse because they need to eat or protect their terrtory. Humans do it because they feel nothing for their fellow human beings. And they like it. I'm done posting on this thread. Im wasting my time. I'm out. Oh and if you can look at the mother of one of Bundys victims and tell her he seemed like a " nice guy" then you have more guts than I I want to apologize if anything that I said offended you. You said in an earlier post that the difference of opinion made this forum interesting, so I thought that it was OK for me to say that I thought that whatever makes people become killers is something that they were born with. I don't have any proof; it's just what I think. I respect the opinions of others and I hope that I didn't give the impression that I didn't respect your opinion.
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Post by Graveyardbride on Oct 28, 2015 10:56:11 GMT -5
No one is all good or all bad and I attempt to be objective. Many considered Jesse James a murderous outlaw and he was, but others saw him as an American Robin Hood because he also possessed some admirable qualities. When he was assassinated by the coward Robert Ford in April 1882, a newspaper reporting his death included the following version of a poem by Joaquin Miller:
In men whom men condemn as ill, I find so much of goodness still. In men whom men deem half divine, I find so much of sin and blot, I hesitate to draw the line Between the two where God has not.
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Post by natalie on Oct 29, 2015 14:41:22 GMT -5
I am curious to know, if you think he was born with something that made him this way, and it isn't some sort of choice, what is this "something" you're referring to, that could have made him kill? A gene? We have seen serial killers who have had children, but their children had no interest in killing and following in their father's footsteps, so can it really be attributed to a certain gene? Could the gene have mutated with the mother's to produce a "good" gene that took over the "bad" killer gene that the killer father could have passed down? Is that what makes the progeny unable to become a cold-blooded killer as well, or is killing somehow a choice or need for these people, and why?
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Post by Sam on Oct 30, 2015 4:42:13 GMT -5
I am curious to know, if you think he was born with something that made him this way, and it isn't some sort of choice, what is this "something" you're referring to, that could have made him kill? A gene? We have seen serial killers who have had children, but their children had no interest in killing and following in their father's footsteps, so can it really be attributed to a certain gene? Could the gene have mutated with the mother's to produce a "good" gene that took over the "bad" killer gene that the killer father could have passed down? Is that what makes the progeny unable to become a cold-blooded killer as well, or is killing somehow a choice or need for these people, and why? I think that sometimes meanness is genetic because you'll have a whole family where the children all have a mean streak that they got from one of their parents. But from what I've read and heard about Bundy, I don't think that was his problem. Sometimes, a person is just a bad seed and I don't have any idea what causes that. But even if he was a bad seed, he knew right from wrong and killing was his choice. I'm sure some of the others can explain this better than I can.
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Post by pat on Oct 31, 2015 0:56:40 GMT -5
I am curious to know, if you think he was born with something that made him this way, and it isn't some sort of choice, what is this "something" you're referring to, that could have made him kill? A gene? We have seen serial killers who have had children, but their children had no interest in killing and following in their father's footsteps, so can it really be attributed to a certain gene? Could the gene have mutated with the mother's to produce a "good" gene that took over the "bad" killer gene that the killer father could have passed down? Is that what makes the progeny unable to become a cold-blooded killer as well, or is killing somehow a choice or need for these people, and why? Genetics play a big part in how a person turns out.
I don't think that Ted chose to kill. He said that he was taken over by what he called an "entity" and also that when he was abducting and killing women, he was always drinking and smoking marijuana. When people drink and use drugs, they do things that they wouldn't ordinarily do. I don't know what caused him to kill, but I do think that it was something that he was born with.
People are constantly trying to figure out why he and other serial killers did what they did, but did it ever occur to any of you that maybe there is something to astrology and maybe it was his afflicted horoscope that made him the way he was? He had a lot of signs in Scorpio and Scorpio people can be very weird, so having a lot of planets in Scorpio couldn't be good.
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Post by natalie on Nov 2, 2015 12:51:55 GMT -5
I'm a Scorpio but I don't know if I am in the afflicted category. I'd be curious to know. I don't know much about afflicted horoscopes in the first place.
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Post by Graveyardbride on Nov 3, 2015 12:50:20 GMT -5
I'm a Scorpio but I don't know if I am in the afflicted category. I'd be curious to know. I don't know much about afflicted horoscopes in the first place. I’m not an astrologer, but what made Ted Bundy’s chart afflicted wasn't his sun sign – which was Sagittarius – but the fact Scorpio was his most dominant sign. The dominant planets were Jupiter, Venus and Pluto and both Venus and Pluto were in Scorpio, which many say is a weird combination. The 12th House – sometimes called the House of Subconscious, i.e., hidden strengths and weaknesses – was also emphasized in his chart.
Below is Ted’s natal chart. In normal horoscopes, people have planets in a variety of signs, etc. and there will be lines crisscrossing the chart. I would have posted a “normal” person’s horoscope for comparison, but couldn't think of anyone who’s normal.Note: If we have any astrologers in the group, please feel free to comment. We would all appreciate your input.
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Post by pat on Nov 7, 2015 5:28:26 GMT -5
A lot of people dismiss astrology, but I've met people who reminded me of someone else I knew and it turned out their birthdays were either on the very same day, or very close together. I've also noticed that people born under the same signs have a lot of the same characteristics.
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